Dumb Newbie Qs

[Ramoth]

I have searched the archives till I'm dizzy, and did find the answers to a lot of my more stupid questions, here are the ones that I couldn't resolve myself. Apologies for repeating earlier cries for help, if I am.

1. I have downloaded the 1.1 patch, and used an archive answer to check if it was working - number for thunderbolt in fantasy game - patch has not "taken" - how do I make it work?
2. Have tried the Midgard scenario - the default "rank" is Deity, do I have any chance at all to get anywhere at all at a lower rank? I'm far too scared to venture higher than Warlord at present.
3. The other tribes are forever forcing me off their territory, yet they seem to be able to dance about all over my cities' land with impunity, preventing my settlers from going about their lawful business. I have tried negotiating with their various bosses, who are mostly pretty rude to me, and only want to trade advances - or declare war! I cannot seem to make them withdraw their troops like they make me do mine.

Thank you for reading this. And one more thing - is there any cure for Civ addiction, or is my condition terminal?

[Cam]

Ramoth,

(1.) I'm leaving this one to TobyR - he's the fantasy game person.

(2.) You can play the game at any level. Don't play the Infidels - your cities are likely to get wiped out early through 'change terrain' events. For me the Elves and the Humans are the most interesting to play. Don't be afraid of higher levels - you might surprise yourself! If you're not succeeding - do you know why? The objectives in the Midgard scenario are pretty specific - do you understand the steps you need to undertake?

(3.) If you think they're rude at Warlord, wait 'til you get to Deity! Trade advances - they will like you more for it... work out what advances you want and trade advances to get more quickly towards your objective. The nature of your government will determine if you can insist that they withdraw their troops if you have a peace agreement. See; apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/000970.html

[tobyr]

I can't help with making the patch "take", it's been awhile since I loaded it. The rules.txt file in the main directory should be dated 9/3/99.

I haven't played midgard yet, just the fantasy game. I don't feel ready for midgard. You might consider playing the straight fantasy game first, there's a lot to learn.

Cam recommends the elves and humans; I recommend the stygians; or the merfolk if you want to be less bothered by the other tribes.

This business of the AI tribes popping up in your territory and being very hard to keep out is the essence of 4-map play. You simply have to deal with it. There are so many things to think about that I believe it's worth a whole column. Here are a few hints:

(1) You must decide between two longterm strategies:
(A) You are a very honest diplomat, so the AI is relatively unlikely to sneak attack you; their units are just in your way. The AI will be more likely to heed your requests to withdraw also.
(B) The heck with diplomacy, you'll kill anything that wanders near your cities, and break as many treaties as you need to do it.
(C) Any strategy in between is very tricky to manage.

(2) Since you can't prevent the AI from wandering amongst your cities, be very careful not fall much behind in technology. Else you'll find these wanderers can take your cities with ease. Advance quickly to a really good defensive unit (such as the humans and elves get early in the game).

(3) City placement is critical. If your city is in a valley, you will hate it when the wanderers sit on terrain with big defensive bonuses.

(4) Prepare to fortify critical high production squares so the wanderers cannot sit on them.

(5) Don't overreact, especially to the jack o lantern, whose incursions are usually harmless.

(6) Early in the game, build sorcerers in your cities and try to wipe out any AI cities that are nearby on any other map. This makes it harder for them to send wanderers to you.

(7) Build your cities close enough together so that sorceres can move among them for sudden attacks or quick defenses.

(8) If you are trying to be peaceful, irrigate and build up extra squares so you can survive the wanderers squatting on a few squares.

(9) Try to avoid making unnecessay requests for the AI to withdraw troops. They don't go very far away, and you no longer know where they are.

- toby


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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

[Cam]

Toby,

I go along with what you say - and your pointers are good. In the Midgard scenario the Elves and the Humans I think give you a better and more fun gaming experience. I appreciate what you're saying, but I like a little more action. Also in Midgard it's not such a drag to get the Jack o Lantern and Frost Giant 'quests' when you're settled on the earth map (it can of course be done with the other tribes, but it's a little more arduous).

Ramoth,

Maybe it might help to approach the AI with more malice and be less reactionary to their demands. As a player, one of my big flaws is to get too defensive. Force yourself to kill off a tribe early in the piece. As I was approaching Emperor and Deity level play, this was one thing I had to push myself to do. You might be having the same problem.

If you're really lost - please feel free to e-mail myself or Toby with any questions about general play or I'll be happy to field any on Midgard specifically. If you have the Official Strategy Guilde (Ellis D. and Possidente J., Prima Publishing) apolyton.net/cgi-bin/links/review.cgi?ID=95 there's a good outline on the scenario - b.t.w. I would disregard the '1 out of 10' vote given in this link.

Best of luck!

[This message has been edited by Cam (edited March 15, 2000).]

[tobyr]

Here are some more hints:

(10) Try to have, in each city, both a fortified defensive unit, and an offensive unit or skald that is asleep. The sleepy unit will wake up to alert you to the sudden presence of an enemy. (Units even wake up if an enemy went past.)

(11) Place units that are asleep next to tunnels that the goblins dig. You can kill (or at least monitor) units as they come out. If you fortify the tunnel (so the goblins cannot use it), they will just build a tunnel elsewhere.

(12) Do not anger the Stygians early in the game unless you are ready to handle their barrow wights, which can pop up next to you on all four maps. (If you really hinder the stygians, maybe they won't be able to develop BW's before you can handle them.)

(13) More about tip 6 above: If your sorcerers (or hawks, if you are buteo, or barrow wights if you are stygian) find cities nearby on another map that are not easy to wipe out, you can still do terrific damage by killing their settlers, or by tracking settlers and occupying a city the moment they build it. Dont waste time killing their warriors unless you intend to take their cities by force.

(14) Again, for offensive early game play, check the civilopedia or rules.txt and be familiar wth the stats of each tribe's warriors and settlers. Some are harder to kill than others.

(15) When you build roads and railroads, you have to think about these are helping your enemies to sneak up on your cities. In the original civ2 game, you could build roads and RR's with impunity around your inner cities, but not here. I do not like build extensive roads where an AI has cities on another map; I want to conquer those cities first. I also do not like to build roads to make it easy for an AI offensive unit to come out of a mountain two squares away for a quick city attack.

(16) don't wait too long to build city walls, because a wall with a good defensive unit is really what makes you safe from aggressive wanderers. And don't hesitate to sell and rebuild those walls in order to bribe a really great Barbarian unit (Kraken, frost giant or one dwarf).

- toby


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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

[Ramoth]

Wow, you guys are TERRIFIC - what a fast response. So much info, I am about to print it out to digest it properly.

So far, using the advice in the book (which I got very soon after opening the ToT box!), I have managed to build the Engine and blast the castle (terrific graphics) quite a few times in Fantasy. I generally play Merfolk - being a peaceable sort - and that seems to work, as you get such a good long time to open the goody huts on your own before any other swine arrive to spoil the fun.

The problems I am having with AI troops holding parties outside my cities are in Extended Original - which I have also succeeded in a few times - but I will certainly try the tips you suggest, and thank you, Cam, for that reference; I was sure it would have been covered somewhere. I just hope I get to bed a little earlier than 2 am tonight.

My husband plays a totally different game to me - he just wants to zap anything that moves, he has a wonderful time, but has only won about half the number of games that I have. So when I simply can't get out of blasting someone, I generally ask his advice. By the way, the game is MINE, not his, so I get priority (maybe that is why I've won more games, on reflection!), though divorce is definitely on the cards - or maybe a second pc.

Thank you very much indeed for your invaluable words of assistance.

"Worshipful" Ramoth
[This message has been edited by Ramoth (edited March 15, 2000).]

[Cam]

Ramoth,

We're really opening the proverbial can of worms here when discussing general approaches to Civ2, however just briefly touching on your points, I'll indulge myself in offering a little advice:

If you've won a few games on Prince or lower - move on up. Playing regularly at the easier levels can lead you into bad playing habits. Relishing isolation can be problematic. Until you're very good, it's very unlikely that you'll win too many games at the higher levels without making some serious dents in the oppositions' empires. Also consider playing a 'bloodlust' game once in a while.

Your husband's strategy sounds from the little you've explained to suffer a bit of lack of co-ordination (wow - what an assumption). If he's being aggressive but losing, he needs to consolidate his attack forces better I'd guess. With war, it is most effective if done en masse in a wave. Picking off enemy units is necessary at times, but you should concentrate in staging a campaign (this is what the AI generally does very badly)...

I will use the Original Game to illustrate my own approach to an attack in the Ancient Era. At the start of the game you're simply exploring and expanding, but along the tech' path you try to get to Monarchy early and head towards Monotheism. Monotheism is great because it offers the best Wonder of the World (contention, contention) and an excellent unit. Veteran Crusaders (and even Veteran Elephants from Polytheism can make a good force) are going to beat almost any AI defence - and if you build a dozen (ideally more) of them, you should be able to wipe out an entire neighbouring tribe. These veteran two-move units with 5 attack can sit one square outside a city (spread them a little around the target, you don't want to lose the lot the turn before you attack!), then move (onto grasslands or plains and other terrain that doesn't penalise movement) and attack in one turn. Use most of your units on the one turn (as many as it takes) to wipe out an enemy city. Keep the momentum going by charging ahead onto the next settlements (leave some defence though - rush buy defenders if necessary), and continue to replenish troops as some will be defeated.

It's amazing how once you make some headway with your invading force, the rest of the enemy empire seems to fall relatively painlessly. Sometimes you may need to stop before you take the whole kingdom - but if you can, do.

This is one of zillion of approaches - some people use knights, others go with a mixed force that includes some one move units, others take lots of diplomats for bribery or destroying walls. Try not to take on the tribe with the Great Wall or Sun Tzu if this can be avoided in the Ancient - Renaissance Era. Not impossible to win, but harder.

The more you play, the more you'll appreciate the subtleties of the game - the need to develop trade routes, using the 'We Love the President Days' to build up your population, terraforming your city sites to hills, and so on. Read the Strategy Forum - packed with good ideas and advice.

Toby,

I'm very surprised you've not got into Midgard yet - it's 'made' for you!

Gosh this is turning into a long thread!

[This message has been edited by Cam (edited March 15, 2000).]