Balance

[goethe]

As an inveterate Civ Addict I was quite pleased with ToT adding new possibilities. But there are some strange features, which make the game annoying sometimes, especially the strength of barbarian units compared to the ability of the AI Players. In the SciFi Game even at "Emperor" and "King" the AI Civs, whether human or alien, seem to be inable to build something that could be called an Empire. The result is that they are very easy to conquer, but this is not necessary because they are totally helpless, when some of the stronger barbarian units show up. From middle game on it´s just a matter of defending against barbarians showing up from nowhere on and on, especially after the landing on Nona. It´s difficult, yes, but not impossible and it is soooo repetitive. (by the way: theoretically I could not beat those def20-monsters, practically the gryphons have some secret ability with attack8 to do it, how come?)
The Fantasy game is balanced a little bit better, except for the dragons. Most of the AI-civs are simply to weak to cope with them, so I just have to wait for their cities to be emptied of defendants by dragons.

Looking forward for answers. There are many people here talking about new scenarios, is there anybody actually playing the game?


goethe

[William Keenan]

Most people play the base games at 'Deity' level. To maintain a challenge once you have learned to beat the computer at Deity you should download and play scenarios designed by other players.

[Cam]

goethe has brought about an interesting question, and I guess it's a good lead towards a very loosely related one;

The Civ2 Strategy Forum members seem to be convinced that the AI has been 'tweaked' to become a notch more competitive in the Multiplayer Gold Edition compared to earlier versions - I wonder if ToT uses the MPGE version of the AI? I suspect a lot must have been modified to encourage the AI to use teleporters and so on for ToT anyway.
[This message has been edited by Cam (edited January 03, 2000).]

[goethe]

Yes, I played Deity in CivII (not yet in ToT, just got the game)and was not so bad at it. But, frankly spoken, the concept of raising difficulty mainly by raising civil disorder does not appeal to me. (it seems to me that in ToT Fantasy/SciFi disorder from empire size comes earlier, is that true?). Since my last game programming experiences go back to Atari 1040 times I can only guess, how difficult it would be to make the AI good enough to raise difficulty mainly by raising it´s cleverness - but I would be looking forward to it.

As for scenarios, I appreciate the good work done by many scenario-writers, but have not tried too many of them (with CivII) up to now. The old idea of building my empire from stone age to future still fascinates me too much:-)

By the way, I see that some of the game editors/ programmers visit this room. May be they can tell me more about game balance in ToT-SciFi. (strength of barbarians vs. relative weakness/ unability to use the different maps of AI-civs) Just another example: Having wiped out a human civilization early in the game I met their new settler centuries later on an island endlessly hopping around in "burning trees" looking for a place to found a city instead of irrigating a square - same thing happened in a fantasy-game with an Elven settler.

Regards

Goethe

[Cam]

Goethe,

On the last point you raise, I suspect what has happened is that the 'customise rules' > 'do not restart eliminated players' option was not selected in your start-up. Essentially as the game progresses if this option is not selected, the chance of an eliminated tribe reappearing diminishes (by account).

I'm surprised however that it put a settler where it did - as 'flame trees' are the equivalent of forest squares. The AI will not irrigate these until the 'Confederation' (The Republic) has been achieved (as per rules.txt). While the nation itself may or may not have this advance under its belt on the restart, I'm not sure that an AI settler will make terrain modifications while there isn't a city founded(?).

[John Possidente]

That is an unusual place for the game to start a new tribe. Perhaps all the good spots were taken, so the game settled for a less-than-optimum position that (oops) just happened to be an island. These things happen, though they're not pretty.

[KenThur]

goethe: U want clever & challenges... go for some MP! Now THAT will challenge & teach U a thing or 2 (or 3)!

Even if U get into 1 that doesn't finish (90% chance)... U can always pick up where the MP ended & finish it off solo.
But at least U had THE BEST competition for awhile & the other civ(s) will have started out in good hands(?).

If U'd like to try, ICQ me (& i'll stick it out to some sort of conclusion).

[goethe]

Thank you for comments.

To John Possidente: I was just wondering .. Having not been able to look through all the files: is the behaviour of AI settlers hardcoded or is there something on my HD, by which I could help them to .. mmh .. settle, instead of moving around endlessly?

Concerning MP: I have never tried that - due to lack of time. Furthermore as an owner of a P 166 I might be a nuisance. But .. I´d like to give it a try:-)

[John Possidente]

The automated Settlers are, despite my pleas and Mick's, still not user-scriptable. They're atrocious and we know it, but there just wasn't time in the ToT development schedule to fix them. (Remember, we started development under Spectrum Holobyte MicroProse, then finished under Hasbro MicroProse; there was a little pressure to deliver from our new owners.)