Barbarian Ship question

[Exile]

In my (unfinished) FoR scen, barbarian ships (storms) appear and move around. They are event-generated. I get the feeling they eventually disband, but am not sure about it.

and yet . . . .

In the Italian scen, the barb ships (barbary ships), event-generated, do appear, but only for a moment and are then disbanded. Barb cities building ships do not ever build them and barb ships placed at start are disbanded too.

I've checked roles. The storm units are sea/attack. I've tried changing the roles for the barbary ships, but nothing changed.

I wonder if the tech that obsoletes barb pirates in the vanilla game also has the effect, in scenarios, of causing the barb player to disband all ships given to it, whether by events or construction.

Does anyone know this?

[Elok]

IDK about that (in case you didn't know/forgot, that tech is Mobile Warfare), but could it be the slots they're in? Maybe they're in slots normally occupied by naval transports and in Civ2 logic that makes them transports to be disbanded the moment they no longer have troops in them. Just a wild guess.

[Exile]

Tried placing the ships in different slots--the same slot used by the storms, for example--and that didn't change the effect. Barb ships still disappear in one scenario . . . and don't in another.

The Mob warfare tech is IN the tree in the Italy scen, but no one has it at start, so it shouldn't affect the process . . . theoretically.

The Mob warfare tech is not in the tree at all, and is a "no,no" tech in the Roman scen.

Could it be that the Mob warfare tech was, at some point in the process, IN the Italy scen, and then taken out . . . but the barb-ship-vanishing-thing is still in effect? Can this be fixed with a hexy?

[AGRICOLA]

This is really far out, but I have puzzled over why the same scen with identical files worked slightly differently (in my case pillage options) depending on what folder it was in. In my case, the difference was traced to an illegal symbol in the folder name. Windows does not complain if symbols illegal for file names are present in folder names but CIV may have problems with them.

Have you tried switching the scens between the folders?

[Exile]

No go.

Tried it Aggy, and no luck. Doesn't seem to matter where it's at, the scen file for one scenario just doesn't work the same way as another.

I'm convinced that the problem is somewhere in the scen file itself. I'm guessing that the Mob Warfare tech/no naval barbs thing is what's happening. The pattern here seems to be the same as the pattern elsewhere; once a game effect has been done, like the philosophy-free-tech window, for example, it is permanent within the scen.

The way to test this is to look at the scen files of the 2 scens and see if, in the Roman scen, the effect has not been triggered, and, in the Italy scen, it has. The only way to determine this is through hexing it.

If someone could do this, the overall result would be that we would now KNOW how to keep barb ships alive and functioning in a scen, and how to shut them down for good. Seems preferable to guessing about whether your barb ships will be there or not.

Aggy, do you have copies of these two scens? If not, let me know and I'll send you copies of the present forms so you can examine them to see. The crux of this issue is a single technology.

[AGRICOLA]

I don't have them.

Please check your pm for my e-mail address.

[Gelion]

Is there a way to forbid the computer to generate barbarian ships? In one scenario I only need groups of land barbarians, even though one half of the map is sea.

[McMonkey]

Although this does not relate to ships it does relate to barbarians.

I was looking at Kull's Seeds of Greatness recently and there is a scenario file included called 'Barbarian Wrath' which had been hex edited by a guy called Rob Roy.

Apparently there is a barbarian setting one higher than Raging Hordes that creates massive land based barbarian armies.

I just thought I would throw this in as it may be a forgotten bit of Civ II knowledge!

[Exile]

Yes, Gelion. The way to prevent all barb pirates from appearing is to give any player the Mobile Warfare tech.

Aggy, I sent the files few days ago. You get 'em?

[EZRhino]

I've noticed that barbarian ships almost never attack other ships. However barbarian cities situated on small islands seem to have no trouble producing naval units. Event created and designer placed barbarian warships only seem to stick around for me when they are in the AEGIS or Battleship slots. Perhaps also making that slot expensive will make the barb AI more reluctant to disband. ToT of course has a 'barbarian unit will not disband' unit property

[Gelion]

Exile, that halped me a ton! Thanks!

[Henrik]

As I recall (well it has been quite a while so I might be wrong) barbarian ships need to be in the trireme or Frigate slots to be able to attack.

Not sure if this will help you as there seem to be a deeper problem as well (the mobile warfare thing).