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How to still improve Civ2 Gameplay? House Rules!

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  • How to still improve Civ2 Gameplay? House Rules!

    Hi folks and comrades!
    It's been some time since I showed some interest in scenario design. Some years ago Jim Panse and me just started some ideas and projects but never even nearly finished them.
    I got bored and turned my shoulder at Civ2.

    Like half a year ago Eivind persuaded me, to try playing a PBEM. I was scared at first, as I never did before and thought I woulnn't stand a chance. But luckily it went out well ( ) and so playing PBEMS became a passion. I again started thinking about how to improve certain trends and ideas.

    First of all I have to say that Eivinds Scenarios, especially the Bk1936-series was like a great improvement of quality regarding PBEM-scenarios. For sure - as naturally everyone has other opinions - discussing some aspects we never came to one agreement, but most things he introduced are verys awesome.

    So if I now go on telling my ideas, I want everyone to know, that without having played the awesome Blitzkrieg 1936-series, I never would've reached that state of planing:

    Civ2 still is a great game. For playing scenarios and PBEMS it is better than Civ3, but still Civ3 for example had some improvements I really would love to see at Civ2: Like the need to posses strategical ressources to build special units. This is just one example. Others will follow.
    As perhaps we will never get the source code, we need to take another chance: House rules!

    At first view House rules may often seem strenuous and complicated. But if you see that House rules like "No ship chaining, no rehoming of trade units" become very normal and ingame you don't even think about it anymore, I think people will get used to it very quickly.

    The project I have in mind is - for god's sake - a WW2 global again. I know there is a lot of them but I don't care, as I primaly create it for my own!
    Also there is lot's of things I want to still improve and I won't stop thinking of my own scenario, until I have done one own.

    So what are my Ideas?

    - Create improvements, which are obviously "useless", but are connected to a house rule. Like a "tank factory" which would allow you to build tanks, just with the improvement built before. Though about this topic I am not sure yet.

    - Creating Special ressource Terrains like in Civ3, like "Oil". For every Oil terrain, you posses you would be allowed to build 10 tank divisions. So, if you want to build more of them, you would have to conquer areas, where Oil is.
    That way the strategical battles of WW2 would be simulated very accurately. Iron would be a second Ressource.

    - Long and Medium Range Bomber no longer attack Units. They get a low attack value and some average defense. But if they endure standing on an enemy's terrain for like 1 or 2 turns, the terrain improvement "mine/irrigation..." would be pillaged. That would simulate strategical bombing. How to do that? I told Dario about this idea and he said it woulndn't be much of a problem to design a tool, to change terrain at cursor outgame.

    - Certain Independent cities would become Trade-Centres with much trade arrows. Like standing on some super-terrain. Also with Highways and Airports from turn 1 on. This way if you get an embargo, you perhaps would be hurt, as you don't have that much of a choice where to trade to, but still have some other possibilities to export. That would be more realistic, too I guess, than e.g. as German depending on the USA only.

    - Using a batch file for rules. The rules section which would be changed with the batch is the road multiplier. As long as you move inside your own land and maybe at friendly neigbours land, you can move like 15/15 movements.
    But as still as you are at war and have to move at enemys land, it is reduced via batch file to standard 3/3.
    That way the very old problem would be solved like "I need 4 months to take my traders from Berlin to Sicily."

    This was my main ideas. I'd be interested in what you think of that. Please feel free to comment.
    Deutscher Meister 2004: WERDER BREMEN

  • #2
    Cifer Almasy, is that Cobra? I know someone at Webring said they were known as Cifer Almasy, but I can't remember who!?!

    Most of your ideas sound excellent for PBEM's where house rules are the norm. For single player games I think your audience will be more limited as people like all the loose ends tied up! I may be wrong!

    Making the scenario YOU want to see is the best policy! That way you will put in the effort and create something unique. If you achieve this then others will probably like it too.

    I like the rule about only producing a certain unit when a certain improvement is built. Another, easier way to represent this is to make complex units like tanks and planes very expensive so they can only be produced in large industrial cities. Smaller cities produce cheap infantry/garrison type units. If you place certain terrains squares carefully you could dictate which cities are industrial. For example use Tundra as a very high shield producing terrain and only place it near Essen, London etc...

    Special resource terrains could be handled in the same way. Use the Glacier terrain for Oil (20 + shields). I do see what you are saying about making these squares strategic targets but house rules just seem a bit of a clumsy way of achieving this effect!

    Strategic bombers could be air-settlers that transform the special terrains to something more mundane. Can air units pillage? I would guess not. But they can transform terrain (I think). This idea has a lot of potential. We have been trying to find a way of representing strategic bombing for a while and as far as I know this idea has come up yet!

    Re: Batch files.
    Batch files allow for much more in scope in the way of events and rules. However, I for one hate using them. I never enjoy scenarios that have batch files as much as I enjoy straight forward ones! Just my preference, don't let it put you off

    I like the idea of swapping between summer and winter but again I find the batch files a pain in the arse! If someone can come up with a clever way to achieve this effect without batch files I will give them a medal. I know Techumseh used unit creation events to represent campaign seasons in Frederick the Great which I thought was good lateral thinking.

    Hope to hear more of your ideas Cifer!
    SCENARIO LEAGUE FORUM
    SCENARIO LEAGUE WIKI SITE
    SL INFORMATION THREAD
    CIV WEBRING MULTIPLAYER FORUM

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    • #3
      First thanks for your constructive comment, pal!


      Originally posted by McMonkey
      Cifer Almasy, is that Cobra? I know someone at Webring said they were known as Cifer Almasy, but I can't remember who!?!

      Most of your ideas sound excellent for PBEM's where house rules are the norm. For single player games I think your audience will be more limited as people like all the loose ends tied up! I may be wrong!
      You know me as Sephiroth over there

      Regarding your other statement: For sure I only speak about a PBEM-only scenario. In my opinion you have to differ strictly from the beginning of design, as singleplayer scens need massive AI-support via events.


      I like the rule about only producing a certain unit when a certain improvement is built. Another, easier way to represent this is to make complex units like tanks and planes very expensive so they can only be produced in large industrial cities. Smaller cities produce cheap infantry/garrison type units. If you place certain terrains squares carefully you could dictate which cities are industrial. For example use Tundra as a very high shield producing terrain and only place it near Essen, London etc...
      For sure I left space for 3 special terrains, which will include at least one or two industrial types. And also the method making Infantry cheap and tanks expensive is a very appropriate solution, which I had in mind in any case.
      It's important to let Infantry be the most important and cheap unit.
      In case of the buildings I had e.g. a "SS-Junkerschule" in mind, which allows to build Elite Waffen-SS (the early one), which is better than the Infantry but not (much) more expensive. That way you could prevent it to be build everywhere.


      Special resource terrains could be handled in the same way. Use the Glacier terrain for Oil (20 + shields). I do see what you are saying about making these squares strategic targets but house rules just seem a bit of a clumsy way of achieving this effect!
      Sorry but this exactly is NOT what I want!
      Look at the Caucasus for example and imagine it to be built as in your example. So you would have, e.g., Baku with 3 Oil-Fields and ~ 60 shields production. Even more with factoryand stuff. So just Baku would be important for a tank-building process. Though - in fact - the oil was important for building tanks back in the homelands.
      I have to say, I really like my idea.
      Still the oil-terrain would have nice stats for the city posessing, like 8 arrows of trade and 3 shields. But the need to posess important ressources would be simulated very accurately. I also don't think it's very difficult to realize inside a PBEM.


      Strategic bombers could be air-settlers that transform the special terrains to something more mundane. Can air units pillage? I would guess not. But they can transform terrain (I think). This idea has a lot of potential. We have been trying to find a way of representing strategic bombing for a while and as far as I know this idea has come up yet!
      Battosai and me thought about this, too. But I still think it's perhaps the best solution, to pillage terrain improvements from outgame, without transforming the terrain itself, which would be kind of unnatural too. Also I am not very sure if there is a possibility to let air units pillage.

      Re: Batch files.
      Batch files allow for much more in scope in the way of events and rules. However, I for one hate using them. I never enjoy scenarios that have batch files as much as I enjoy straight forward ones! Just my preference, don't let it put you off

      I like the idea of swapping between summer and winter but again I find the batch files a pain in the arse! If someone can come up with a clever way to achieve this effect without batch files I will give them a medal. I know Techumseh used unit creation events to represent campaign seasons in Frederick the Great which I thought was good lateral thinking.

      Hope to hear more of your ideas Cifer!
      Mhm.. you're a lazy bum, McMonkey!:P

      Though there definitely is a problem witch the MapCopy tool and season change. Transformation of woods for example get nullified after the map change. Also the terrain bonus information which does regulate the trade benefit gets randomized - at least that's what Dario told me. And I also had some really strange trade outcomes in the past. So I wouldn't use it.
      Deutscher Meister 2004: WERDER BREMEN

      Comment


      • #4
        Sephi! I knew it was you all along ()

        If this is aimed mainly at PBEM then I think you are on the right track! House rules are part of the fabric and a few interesting ones like these could work very well.

        I like to design for both single and multiplayer, they both have their unique challenges. It is good to talk through new ideas as they tend to snowball into bigger better ideas (and sometimes into red herrings!).

        PBEM's have the big advantage that special concepts and unusual unit types work where the AI would ignore them in single player games.

        If it is OK by you I am going to try and incorporate elements of the strategic bombing idea into my latest project. I will keep you informed on how they progress!
        SCENARIO LEAGUE FORUM
        SCENARIO LEAGUE WIKI SITE
        SL INFORMATION THREAD
        CIV WEBRING MULTIPLAYER FORUM

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        • #5
          For sure, you are welcome to use any kind of ideas, which were developed here!
          Deutscher Meister 2004: WERDER BREMEN

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          • #6
            ha!!! I found a nice solution!
            You just need a batch file to do it, nothing more.

            Let the Bombers be bombers. Original Air Units. Just land on the terrain you want to pillage. save your game. change rules file via batch file: now your bomber is a ground unit with the same amount of movement. you can pillage. after that just reswitch. voilá!
            Deutscher Meister 2004: WERDER BREMEN

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            • #7
              Hiho, comrade, long time no see ;-) I do sense you are still around - like me You're alright, buddy?

              Sorry for the threadjacking everyone

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jim panse
                Hiho, comrade, long time no see ;-) I do sense you are still around - like me You're alright, buddy?

                Sorry for the threadjacking everyone
                yeah, Steph! You still live!

                You haven't been at MSN for a long time, chap!

                I'm fine, hope you're, too?
                Deutscher Meister 2004: WERDER BREMEN

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