AI Sneak Attacks - irritating as hell

[kobayashi]

Given a no negotiations scenario, what can you do to delay AI sneak attacks against you?

My goal has been to prevent a sneak attack by the Allies until 1942 (60 turns).
From dozens of hours of play-testing DST and I’ve managed pushed the initial sneak attack from early 1939 back to mid 1941. This is what I’ve gathered form experiments.


Statue of Liberty - This helps but is not anywhere sufficient to prevent sneak attacks.

Having it built mid-game has a better effect than starting with it.


Research - When the AI has nothing to research, it will sneak attack you

Gave Americans extra useless techs to research other than future tech, plus the perfectionist leader flag


Reputation – the worse your reputation is the more likely you will be sneak-attacked.
Without fail, when Japs sneak attack the Europeans, after a few turns the British sneak attack the Japs.

To get around this, I made the Europeans declare war at the time the event message tells the Japs to take over Indochina. Giving the AI the civil leader flag helps too.


Bumping - Each time an AI unit with the attack role bumps into one of yours, there is a chance of triggering a sneak attack.

Gave the early American ships naval superiority role so they traveled between their own bases instead of roaming freely.


Existing War - If the AI is at war with no one else, this makes it very likely to sneak attack you.

Made AI at war with a one city civ from the beginning.

[AGRICOLA]

That is a very impressive list of the subtleties of CIV2 that you have investigated.

1. Have you tried hexediting asymmetric diplomatic relations so that the US is allied to Japan but Japan is only at peace with the US?

2. Does making the US a democracy (but no UN wonder) help?

EDIT:
I know that the asymmetric approch works because I've hexedited scens for several designers so that Barbs do not attack one or more civs. In your case, with no diplomacy and an alliance with Japan, the US cannot attack Japan before Japan opens hostilities, thereby ending the US-Japan alliance.

[techumseh]

There's only one way to do it without risk. Ally the civs, disable negotiations and don't allow spies or diplomat units. Use the 'MakeAggression' event to start a war.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA

1. Have you tried hexediting asymmetric diplomatic relations so that the US is allied to Japan but Japan is only at peace with the US?

you can do that?
why didn't you say so in the first place? Would have saved me monhs of semi-fruitless tweaking.

[curtsibling]

Indeed, you can hex edit the civs to like each other, then use events to unleash hell!

[AGRICOLA]

@Kobi
We can't tell you about something if you don't tell us that you need it.


Please be aware that someone playing Japan can abuse either asymmetric relations or a 2-way alliance. IIRC DST correctly, it may be prudent to have events start hostilities rather than waiting for Japan to pick its time to start war [ e.g. like late 1943, after it has eliminated the Chinese civ ]. This applies equally to the relationship between Japan and the British, Dutch and French.

In case you prefer not to hexedit, please feel free to e-mail a save/scen and instructions.

[curtsibling]

Delayed events could could also be brought into play to kick
start the war, as a consequence to various actions by the
(Japanese) player...EG: taking a city could provoke the Allies.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by techumseh
There's only one way to do it without risk. Ally the civs, disable negotiations and don't allow spies or diplomat units. Use the 'MakeAggression' event to start a war.

Thats the way it is now. - hence the sneak attack problem

Originally posted by curtsibling
Delayed events could could also be brought into play to kick
start the war, as a consequence to various actions by the
(Japanese) player...EG: taking a city could provoke the Allies.

I don't want to provoke the Allies, I want them to leave the Japs alone until pearl harbour.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
@Kobi
We can't tell you about something if you don't tell us that you need it.

In case you prefer not to hexedit, please feel free to e-mail a save/scen and instructions.

On second thoughts, the hex-editing will not work in my situation as both the Americans and British are liable to sneak attack. If both were unidirectionally allied to the Japs, attacking one of them could not provoke the right response from the other - the Jap player would have to sneak attack both of them on the same turn and you know how untrustworthy players can be.

I think I'm almost there anyway. I'm going to test out the theory that if the Japs don't sneak attack the Chinese and ruin their spotless reputation, the Americans/British will not sneak attack before pearl harbour.

I'll also work in some way to strengthen the western half of the Chinese.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by kobayashi


Thats the way it is now. - hence the sneak attack problem

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but if the US and Japan are allied, can't talk, and there are no spies, then neither should be able to sneak attack the other. I've never seen instances of it, anyway.

You can't attack a civ you're allied to, and you can't break an alliance if you can't talk, or spy. The only way to break the alliance is via events. What am I missing?

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by techumseh


Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but if the US and Japan are allied, can't talk, and there are no spies, then neither should be able to sneak attack the other. I've never seen instances of it, anyway.

You can't attack a civ you're allied to, and you can't break an alliance if you can't talk, or spy. The only way to break the alliance is via events. What am I missing?

my bad, they are not allied. However, if they were allied with no negotiation, not even events can cause war cause allies need negotiation to break their alliance.

[Cyrion]

Are you sure a "MAKEAGGRESSION" event wouldn't work with allied civ?

[AGRICOLA]

I modified my DST 'START' file (the save immediately after the scen has been started) to have the UK and US allied to Japan and Japan at peace with both.

The following are the initial US and UK Foreign Ministers' status reports on Japan

US - Japan . . . . . Neutral, Allied
UK - Japan . . . . . Uncooperative, Allied

The following happens if Japan attacks the US:

The US develops the War in Asia tech and the FM reports change to

US - Japan . . . . . Enraged, War
UK - Japan . . . . . Icy

The UK - Japan Alliance is gone and UK units are able to attack Japanese ones.

To make absolutely sure, it may be an idea to have a Makeaggression event between UK and Japan if the US gets the War in Asia tech.

[AGRICOLA]

@ Kobi

Here is 'TEST' the modified version of the START file so you can try it.

EDIT: Just to make sure that the UK is free to attack Japan after Japan attacks the US, I checked the pre- and post-attack saves for the UK relationship with Japan.

The pre-attack entry is '8c' = Embassy, Alliance, Peace
The post-attack entry is '80' = Embassy

Obviously, the Japanese attack on the US has activated the US - UK alliance and cancelled the UK - Japan alliance.

[kobayashi]

sound's promising. (rubs his hands together in glee)

The trigger for War in Asia is the same trigger that makes agression on Japs by the Brits though. Maybe a repeating trigger might work.

the other thing is the DST version youhave allows negotiations - which has some implications.

I'll post a new start file for you to hex-edit later if you don't mind. There have been quite a few changes (like I relaized Fort Bayard is supposed to belong to the french) since I relased 2.0