LORD OF THE ONE RING is released

[kobayashi]

I have uploaded the scenario to the S-Leaue repository, the link to which is...

LOTOR page at S-League

[curtsibling]

Going there, right now!



Looks awesome, will play this one tonight...

[Elensar]

Posting in this thread, instead of the old one.


Well, "back from the brink of defeat" fits...I just don't like losing the Ranger outpost quite this easily.

Too much Nazgul/Black Rider attention.

I do like the balance otherwise, but I wish the Rangers were just a tiny bit stronger. After all, the Nazgul get respawned when killed.

Maybe if their movement was less...
Its basically "Kill, respawn, die next turn".

If only there was a way to make it so the respawns were weak (low hit points), so that they couldn't keep a continuous wave. That works beautifully for Mordor's hordes, but not the Nazgul.


Oddly, at least to me, holding the Westfold is relatively easy. Maybe I triggered something the play testers didn't?
I trust the playtesting, though, and I may be being idiotic to focus my rangers around Henneth Annun...but with the power of the Nazgul, there's nowhere safe. At all.

[kobayashi]

As you've probably figured out, the Black Riders can't cross the Anduin so they are not a threat as yet. As long as you evacuate Ithilien, you won't be seeing much of the Nazgul until Isengard is defeated.

If Faramir stays at Henneth Annun, you could conceivably hold it for a very long time but then he would be trapped in Ithilien. That's a trade off you have to decide on.

The Westfold will get increasingly difficult to defend, I guarantee you. The game is just giving you the opportunity to prepare for the onslaught. Maybe you just haven't played enough turns.

[Elensar]

That's definately true. I'm just observing that West Rohan is easier to defend so far by comparison...I'm sure it'll wind up as hard enough to give me gray hair.

Why, incidently, does Faramir not ignore zones of control? Is this a balance thing?

Well, I'll try this again, this time playing smart and having the rangers move out...though how to effectively use them I'm not sure.

That, I think, is what's driving me batty. They're not qutie tough enough to take on Black Riders and Nazgul, but they're not mobile enough to hit and run on the same turn.

Decisions, decisions.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Elensar
Well, I'll try this again, this time playing smart and having the rangers move out...though how to effectively use them I'm not sure.

That, I think, is what's driving me batty. They're not qutie tough enough to take on Black Riders and Nazgul, but they're not mobile enough to hit and run on the same turn.

If its hit and run you're looking for, in one of my games, Faramir leading a force of Rangers did manage to overrun North Ithilien on the way out and sell everything inside it before escaping to Cair Andros. This has the effect that Mordor doesn't focus on Henneth Annun. You could also try pillaging roads.

but, I really think of Rangers as emergency response units, rushing to whichever place that is being attacked (by orcs).

[Tigey]

This is a lot of fun! Nice to see the two underground quests: the way you've done Gollum works really well... I also like the fact you can only build dinky militia units, and that your real hitting power is in your heroes (who are also in great demand for road/fort building)!.


The only downside I've experienced so far, is that Mordor is not very aggressive at all, even after the events have bridged the river. They haven't even attacked CAir Andros/Osgiliath, despite having huge numbers of units in the vicinity, even adjacent to them! Saruman is pounding Helm's Deep incessentatly, and the Haradrim are at the gates of Pelargir, but Sauron's hordes aren't even crossing the river at all. The only attacks he's made are by Nazguls bombing Cair Andors randomly. I've tried gifting them hundreds of more units in Cheat Mode, but they just don't want to cross it. Period.

Pesky AI Great scenario though! Holding Helm's Deep is a must, as is deciding whether to go to the rescue of the Shire (or risk having Saruman build up a huge army with its resources)

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Tigey
This is a lot of fun! Nice to see the two underground quests: the way you've done Gollum works really well... I also like the fact you can only build dinky militia units, and that your real hitting power is in your heroes (who are also in great demand for road/fort building)!.

The only downside I've experienced so far, is that Mordor is not very aggressive at all, even after the events have bridged the river. ....

Surprised to see you got that far in just one weekend. Just wondering - Did you flood Isengard, how come Helm's Deep is still under attack? Did the Witch King spawn yet? In all the games I played Minas Tirith was beseiged and starved by Mordor. Did you try attacking across the river?

[Tigey]

I did flood Isenguard: much to my annoyance! I wanted to take the Wonder there (am fairly sure it was the Hoover Dam), to kickstart my Forges! I also gained the Entmoot event with the wrong Hobbits! I used the ones spawned after leaving Moria, rather than the ones I think I was meant to...

Helms Deep was still attacked after the Isen was diverted, because Saruman had taken everything west of Helms Deep (excepting the Shire, Bree and the Allied Cities), giving him a large production base (especially with spawning pits: some of his cities made it to size 13...) That said, the Hornburg was obviously much easier to hold afterwards. However, I liked the decision of whether to immediately ride to the aid of Gondor, or to delay in order to mop up Saruman. Not that Gondor needed much help...

As for attacking accross the river: that would have been suicide! As I said, Sauron wasn't crossing the river: all his units were staying there (and occasionally mauling themselves against Mirkwood), meaning that his army there was huge, with hundreds of Orcs and Olog-Hais... If he was willing to stay there, who was I to question him. I haven't quite finished: am just waiting for Frodo and Sam to heal after tackling Shelob (after spending several turns leading her onto a 50% defensive penalty tile in order to ambush her), before I go searching for the next trigger unit. Haven't found how to trigger the army of the dead yet either... Haven't seen the Witch King either...

Ps: as pollution is turned on in this scenario, you might want to give Mordor's cities some Solar Plants/Mass Transits (obviously renamed). I suggest this, as they have no way to clean up tainted land (although I didn't see them suffer from any), and the player's supply of Heroes is too limited for rapid cleanup of tainted land, which led to global warming almost becoming a problem after I got forges. Giving Solar Plants to Mordor would also give them greater production, enabling larger hordes of Orcs...

I'd also reconsider making Saruman a spy. He stole several techs from me, then promptly vanished! After a while, I got curious, and switched the player to Isenguard. He had disappeared completely: I assume he was "caught" as a spy? I'd make him an Immobile unit, personally... Or perhaps even a airborne one (and thus only able to be attacked by Aragon/Hobbits), with zero attack, and Domain 3...

edit: just remembered. I'd also like to echo what Elensar said about Rangers. I would personally either increase their movement to 2 points, or increase their attack by 1 point. I would also make them unbuildable: leaving you with only the starting ones, and the ones that you get through the relevant event.

[kobayashi]

Thanks for such a detailed feedback.

Err…did you know you Aragon has to destroy the BlackGate or Sauron’s Eye will continue to block Frodo from getting through to Mount Doom. You didn’t think it would be that easy did you? Ha ha. As for the oathbreakers, after researching Paths of the Dead, Aragon (busy guy isn’t he?) must go down to Pelargir and unfurl (i.e. kill) his banner there to make the Army of Dead materialize.

Jolly good that you figured out how to deal with Shelob. AI cities don’t generate polluted squares, so there is no point giving them pollution related improvements. Yes, Sauruman got caught (went underground as Sharkey)....or else he would have bribed all your cities eventually.

Will consider the idea of making Rangers unbuildable but beefed up. There will be a patch after I consolidate all the others get round to saying something - so far its just you and Elensar who have posted comments.

[Elensar]

A thought. This may or may not add anything to the scenario...but I'm curious why it isn't in there.

No Eowyn. Or Citadel Guards.
Or Denethor, for that matter, though he wouldn't add much (I think).

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Elensar
A thought. This may or may not add anything to the scenario...but I'm curious why it isn't in there.

No Eowyn. Or Citadel Guards.
Or Denethor, for that matter, though he wouldn't add much (I think).

Eowyn = no space, least important of heroes in terms of action. Could have made her a missile specifically meant to kill Witch King but that would conflict with the sound slots (mainly Fireball and Gandalf the Grey). I could also have used the slot for the twins but Eowyn didn't really fight till the very end.

Citadel Guards = mostly a BFME construct, they only guarded the tree and top level. It would have been cool to rip and use the 'Tower Guards' rally cry from BFME though.

Denethor = yes, he wouldn't add much, his contribution/interference was mostly strategic and that is captured by the way you are forced to play out the events. I wanted to add a 'so passes denethor, son of ecthelion' in there somewhere but needed to conserve event space.

p.s. do you have a suggestion as to what I can change the wonder 'Sea of Rhun' to?

[kobayashi]

For all who are playing the game.

The small people were inadvertently left out of the people file. Please paste the following (right click to save as) into the designated area in the people.bmp or you won't be able to check the attitude attributes. This is a hot fix and you won't need to restart or anything.

[kobayashi]

While awaiting comments (if indeed there are to be any) from people playing LOTOR, I've juggled around some techs to give each civ a set of their own big people (based mostly on Curt Sibling's people collection except for the orc). I'll be including this in a patch later.

[curtsibling]

Looking good, Kobayashi!