One more for the road ...

[jim panse]

Hullo fellers.

It has been a while but I may hereby announce work on one more scenario. I do not know how much time I will be able to spend on it, hence you should not expect too fast progress.

You may be wondering what this one will be about. Well, I decided to make this one accompagnying my PhD thesis a little.

My PhD thesis is about Dalmatia in the 16th century in general, and about the social structures of the elite of the town of Zadar between the two sea battles of Prevesa (1538) and Lepanto (1571) in particular.

So, what might this have to do with a Civ2 scenario?

Good point.

Well, I decided to make a scenario about the Adriatic Sea and its coastal realms, particularly featuring the two thalassocracies of Venice and Ragusa/Dubrovnik.

So far I have begun on designing the map which will extend in the West from the mouth of the river Po to the river Drina in the East, today the border between Serbia and Bosnia-Hercegovina.
In the North the Pianura Padana, i.e. the parts that today constitute the Italian region of Friuli-Venezia Giulia, to the Straits of Otranto in the South will mark the borders of the map.

Furthermore, I decided to start in the aftermath of the so-called War of Chioggia (sometimes also referred to as the War of Tenedos) between Venice and Genoa and its allies, the Kingdom of Hungary and the Republic of Ragusa/Dubrovnik.

I shall attach a couple of pictures from the map and post some more information later on.

[jim panse]

Some more information.

I have not yet decided on all players, what information I have got so far I shall provide hereby. The contestants (in no particular order) are:

Republic of Venice.

The Papacy.

Kingdom of Naples.

Republic of Ragusa.

Habsburg Posessions.

Kingdom of Hungary.

Ottoman Empire.

These territories - with the exception of the Ottomans - are marked on another screenshot of the abovementioned map.

More to come later

EDIT: Spelling

[fairline]

More Renaissance - good stuff

When Exile releases his Italian Wars I'll let you have the units I've made up for Carolus; there should be everything you need for this timeframe if you want 'em JP.

[jim panse]

Re: More Renaissance

That would be awesome, thank you very much, Gareth

I will post some more information, also regarding the possible units, city improvements and wonders soon.

More information will be provided soon

[Sarsstock]

Steph its always great to see you starting work on a new project! Since your probably the best authority on this era of history on Poly so I'm sure the scenario will be as accurate as a Civ II scenario can be.

This will be a ToT project I assume?

[Exile]

MGE right?

[Gagliaudo]

excellent idea, JimPanse

another Renaissance scenario... another Italy-mapped (partially) scenario

so, it will begin in 1381 ? (aftermath War Chioggia)
Maybe in this case other characters could be Serbians (early crashed at Kosovo in 1389) and Albanians (resisting with Gjergj "Skanderbeg" Kastrioti, until about 1470)
Well, Serbian early out-of-game... so, beginning after Kosovo (1389) or Nicopolis (1396), Albanians keep on (but they were 'operative' only between about 1440 and 1470...)
Well, I wrote too much: concluding... Albanians as barbarians???

[McMonkey]

Good idea for a scenario Jim. I love this period, indeed I once started work on a novel () set around this time and area only to discover I could not write for toffee (spent three weeks on the first paragraph and gave up ).

Great subject matter and a good map scale/focus. Look forward to seeing this develop.

[tanelorn]

Go for it!
I assume from a quick glance at the wonderful map that the timeframe will be close to that of your dissertation (good luck with that one, first and foremost). May I just note that both Prevesa (/Preveza) and Lepanto (/Naupactus)are a bit off the SE corner of the map...
-edit-
kosovo is partially in the map, however I see a Turkish/Hungarian border up there so it can't be that early

[curtsibling]

I love this kind of subject matter, the age of power in the 1500s!

Great to see you back for this epic!

[jim panse]

Time for some answers.

@ Chris, Phenix: Good to see someone else interested in this period as well And, to answer your version questions, this will be made in ToT format. This will be because of the increased number of possibilities in ToT, not only because of more events space.

@ Gagliaudo: If you would like to recount the number of players I listed above, you might be finding out that there are already seven entities there
The inhabitants of the Balkan hinterlands will be represented by Barbarians (in the Civ2-sense only, of course). I do acknowledge this is not too faif to them but if you look at the history of these entities, all of the appear to have been highly unstable, very weak in terms of real power and quite irrelevant to the bigger picture I am trying to give. Furthermore, it allows me to use a (more or less) generic set of cities for the Balkan powers which include entities like Serbia, Zahumlje (Hercegovia), Bosnia, Crna Gora/Montenegro, various Albanian tribes as well as seminomadic tribes like the Hajduks, Morlaks and Vlachs.

@ Tim: You are not only right about the fact that this scenario is partially influence by my PhD thesis, but also about the fact the locations of either sea battle are not on this map. I did so (mainly) because of the concentration on the events in the Adriatic since said sea was incredibly important to the two - supposedly - playable civilizations, Venice and Dubrovnik. 'Venice was', to quote American researcher on Venice Frederic C. Lane, 'first and foremost dependent on the Adriatic.' The same holds a huge amount of truth for Dubrovnik as well: Being the linking part between the goods from the Balkan hinterlands to Venice and Italy made them extremely wealthy compared to their actual real power.
I am seriously contemplating, however, at least to include Corfù, by the way because of the importance of said island to Venetian international sea trade. Any thoughts?

@ all: Good to see some interest in this one

Oh, by the way, I am not going to do too much for this one over the next two to three weeks as I going to see my girl in Germany so ... I will get back to this as soon as I am back, behave while I am away

EDIT: Added some information.

[Gagliaudo]

Re: Time for some answers.

Originally posted by jim panse
@ Gagliaudo: If you would like to recount the number of players I listed above, you might be finding out that there are already seven entities there

of course, I think them as alternative to 1-2 choices of yours...

The inhabitants of the Balkan hinterlands will be represented by Barbarians (in the Civ2-sense only, of course). I do acknowledge this is not too faif to them but if you look at the history of these entities, all of the appear to have been highly unstable, very weak in terms of real power and quite irrelevant to the bigger picture I am trying to give.

Oh, by the way, I am not going to do too much for this one over the next two to three weeks as I going to see my girl in Germany so ... I will get back to this as soon as I am back, behave while I am away

aufwiedersehen and Happy Easter

[jim panse]

Time for some update ...

I have some time to spare right now so I thought I would post some more stuff here ...

Firstly, for those interested in this period, I shall leave a small number of literature hints providing a quick overview. Believe me, I have *much* more literature hints available, if one of you should really want some more books, feel free to ask

* Fine, John V.: The late medieval Balkans. A critical survey from the late 12th century to the Ottoman conquest, Ann Arbor, MI, 1987.

This book by John Fine gives a good overview of what happened during the period mentioned in the subtitle. It portrays the regions of what today are the following countries: Albania, Greece, Ex-Yugoslavia, Bulgaria; Romania and Hungary are not that detailled depicted but it will do.

* Hale, John R.: Renaissance Venice, London 1973.

A 'classic' in the field of research concerning Venice and its republican state. Furthermore, John Hale is a very reknown person among the scientists who work about Venice. A must for everyone who is somehow into Medieval and Renaissance history of the Mediterranean.

* Lane, Frederic C.: Venice. A maritime republic, Baltimore, MD, 1973.

Fredereic Lane portrays the history of the Venetian Republic from its start to its bitter end in 1796. He gives a good account of the various aspects of everyday life in Venice during its about 1.000 years of existence. If you are interested in this part of history and you would like to have a rather easy readable book, this one is for you.

Anyhow, that's it for some books for now. As I mentioned above, if someone should need/want some more hints, feel free to ask

And now for something completely different. Time for some unit hunt.

Originally posted by fairline
When Exile releases his Italian Wars I'll let you have the units I've made up for Carolus; there should be everything you need for this timeframe if you want 'em JP.

Well, Gareth, I would be delighted if you would post your units here - preferrably in ToT format

However, I would be also delighted if someone else would feel compelled to contribute *anything* as well. Unfortunately I am not in Vienna right now so I can not possibly post what I did in the field of graphics yet. I will post these files as soon as I am back at home in Austria, I promise

I will now add some unit 'request' list so you may post what you have got/made/done. Nota bene: This list is far from being complete and I am open for negotiations

Mercenary Company (Italians)
Mercenaries (> Balkans)
City Guard/Communal Militia
Albanians
Skenderbeg Hero unit (?)
various kinds of cavalry
Ottomans
Serbians
Hungarians
...
Mediterranean trade ship/14th century
Mediterranean Trade Cog/15th century
Carrack
Galleao
Galley
Trade Galley
Galeass
...

I hope some of you might contribute something here

[fairline]

Here's the Carolus units plus a few others I've added that may prove useful. It's a mish-mash of old and new, early, mid and late 16th C. with some 17th C. Eastern European and balkan units.

The Muscovite, Polish and Hungarian units are useable from the mid-16th through to the late 17th C. as their dress didn't change that much. The Hungarian haiduk and light hussar could be used as Croatians, Albanians or Poles. The early 16th C. W. European units are fairly generic and can be used for any nation, with a few notable exceptions like the Habsburg Burgundian Guard, English Yeoman of the Guard and 1510-ish longbowman and French Guard.

When I have more free time I'll look at making some 15th C. units.

[fairline]

Useable in-game units in a bmp: