A Slim Victory

[Boco]

Originally posted by McMonkey
Can't wait to see all the units!

Basically I CAN'T WAIT, but I guess I will have to

Wellll...actually I'll be using nato symbols for my alpha testing. For EA, I pestered Fairline for several units that I never used. I'd like to minimize that this time.

As Tech has noted, my scenario designing tends to last as long as the campaign itself.

In the interest of playability, I've decided to drop ideas for supply and strategic air warfare.

On the other hand, I will include a mini-campaign in China on another map. I'm hoping to give the player incentive to build the Stillwell road and send supplies to China. Another possiblity is to make a spaceship in China that requires a lot of freights, but I'm leaning against that. At this point, I'd rather let you play out the Chihchiang campaign in April-June '45. Success will depend on sending supplies (freights), advisors (from the MARS force?), and units of the Chinese Army in India. My knowledge of this is a little sketchy. Anyone know some good links? Anything about the Rooster Mission in 1945?

[McMonkey]

I was so excited I made a West African mod. I know the game is ToT and the mod is a bit naff but what the hell

[Boco]

Many thanks! Your enthusiasm helps!

Does anyone know what armored cars and artillery the 200th Chinese division (or attached cavalry units) would have used in either 42 or 44-45? This was a unique division that was unusually well-equipped and led. A Chinese armored recon or arty could be nifty, but is likely to be such a minor contributor that uniques slots aren't warranted...unless I use this as an event trigger...

[McMonkey]

Wikipedia?

200th Division

Mentions lots of T-26 Light Tanks but not the dates when these were in service!

Battle for Central Burma has some good info and OOB.

[Boco]

Most of the division's tanks were lost in 1938. Those sites you mention ( ) cite a cavalry (with armored cars) and armored regiment attached directly to the 5th army. One source (an unverified forum post) indicates these were sdkfz 222, cv33, and even FT-17 afv's. To make even one unit from this handful is stretching things, but it may make things fun.

Anyone have a feel for the relative merits of the Oscar, Tojo, Tony, and Frank fighters against ground troops or the Allied fighters of the time (43-45).

[Boco]

[Edit] Deleted double post.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Boco
Most of the division's tanks were lost in 1938. Those sites you mention ( ) cite a cavalry (with armored cars) and armored regiment attached directly to the 5th army. One source (an unverified forum post) indicates these were sdkfz 222, cv33, and even FT-17 afv's. To make even one unit from this handful is stretching things, but it may make things fun.

Anyone have a feel for the relative merits of the Oscar, Tojo, Tony, and Frank fighters against ground troops or the Allied fighters of the time (43-45)?

According to my reference book, the Oscar was the main Japanese Army fighter in the Burma campaign, winning easily over the Buffaloes and Hurricanes. It sounds a bit like an army version of the Zero, being highly manouverable, but lightly armoured and without self-sealing tanks. New allied tactics and aircraft eventually got the better of it, but it remained the mainstay of Japanese fighter assets as late as mid '44.

Tojo- high altitude interceptor/Japan

Tony- high altitude interceptor/Japan

Frank- excellent late war fighter. Deployed in small numbers outside Japan- China, Philippines, Sumatra. Burma?

It looks like a later version of the "Helen" (Ki-49-IIa) was an effective medium bomber used in Burma from mid-'42, as well as the "Nick" a twin engined attack aircraft introduced in late '42.

Throughout the Burma campaign, the Mitsubishi KI-51 "Sonia" was a ground attack plane capable of operating from rough and remote air fields. It was slow and vulnerable to enemy fighters.

Hope this helps.

[Boco]

The ones I mentioned did serve in the 50th hiko-sentai. Nates, Anns, Lilies, and Sallies also served. Didn't know about Helens and Sonias. Thx.

Are these 105mm's? Claimed to be a battery in the Chinese Army in India (Decisive Battles of WWII scenario: Burma Test).

[McMonkey]

Looks pretty authentic to me. The crews uniform is correct and the Chinese did receive lots of US equipment which Chiang gave to his best (most loyal) units. Apparently a lot of the best troops and equipment were kept out of harms way in reserve to fight the Communists once the Japanese were defeated.

I love this photo of a Chinese crew with a 20mm Danish Madsen cannon (I think!?!):

[McMonkey]

Some possibly interesting CBI info from Yank:

Yank The Army Weekly

[Case]

Originally posted by Boco
Are these 105mm's? Claimed to be a battery in the Chinese Army in India (Decisive Battles of WWII scenario: Burma Test).

Yes, I'm pretty sure that those are 105mms. They're too big to be 75mms and not big enough to be 155mms.

[McMonkey]

Oh, yes. They are deffinately 105mm M2A1 Howitzers and I know the Chinese did recieve numbers of these excellent field pieces. As the picture looks very authentic I would say they were used in Burma! I have seen photos of Chinese troops in Burma using US 75mm Pack Howitzers too.

[Boco]

These must've been initially supplied to the Chinese Army in India. I think I can assume that anything this heavy would not be in China (or Y Force, originating in China) until the Ledo road was open. This sound right?

[fairline]

Originally posted by Boco
Are these 105mm's?

Yep

[Boco]

1st lists

For guys who measure caliber by shell weight, you're pretty good. Thanks!

I'd love to hear comments on these lists. I'll revise them based on your comments and what I learn from reading and testing. There's a good chance I missed a major item.

•Maps
Main theater
SE China (Kunming to Chihchiang)
Order of Battle
To be determined (TBD)

• Civilizations:
Allies (Human),
Japanese,
Chinese (may be combined with Allies),
Thai?
Nature

• UNITS (strike outs are uncertain)
LoC Garrison — can't enter impassable
Engineers
Colonial Inf — can't enter impassable
Chinese Inf
African Inf
British Inf
AT•Mtr — pikemen bonus
Himalayas — defeats any attacker
Indep Mix Bde
IJA Infantry — partisans
Chindits
Indian Inf
Commando
Parachute Inf
Lorried Inf
Recce — jungle capable
Gurkhas
RAF Fld Sqn — airstrip guards
US LRP Grp — Merrill's Marauders and MARS
Yoma — impassable terrain
CAI LRP Grp — Chinese Army in India contingent of MARS
CAI Inf (O) — have orders from CKS to attack
CAI Inf (D) — have orders from CKS to defend only
Mortar Rgt — can enter impassable
FA Bn (Pack) — can enter impassable
Mtn Rgt — can enter impassable
Jungle Fld R — can enter impassable
Lees — pikemen bonus
Fld Rgt (Jury) — can enter impassable
Fort — IJA and IJN
Fld Rgt (Mk2) — can't enter impassable
Shermans — pikemen bonus
FA Bn (105) — can't enter impassable
Assault Fld R
SP Fld Rgt
Medium Rgt
Stuarts
Scout Cars
Sd Kfz 222
Sampans
Gunboats
Naval TF
Submarine
Sea Transport
CVE Air Grp
B-29 — for a single fire bomb mission
Liberator
Guerillas
Supplies
Supply Depôt
Air Transport
Buffalo
Mohawk
Tomahawk
Hurricane — may need to split into Hurricane IIB (IJAAF fodder) and IIC (Hurribomber)
Spitfire — primarily defensive interceptor
Thunderbolt
Mustang
Blenheim
Vengeance
Beaufighter — any Mosquitos are assumed to be in these units
Apache or Katiuska
Mitchell
Thai Inf
INA Inf
BIA Inf — bribable at some point
Guard Unit — IJA or IJN garrison, not an elite unit
AA Rgt
Mtn Arty Rgt
FA Rgt
Tank Rgt — uniquely trigger pikemen bonus
Ki-27 (Nate)
Ki-43 (Oscar)
Ki-44 (Tojo)
Ki-45 (Nick)
Ki-84 (Frank)
Ki-51 (Sonia)
Ki-48 (Lily)
Ki-21 (Sally)
Ki-49 (Helen)

• TERRAIN
Village (under cities)
Scrub
Elephant Grass
Trail
Gorge
Highland Forest
Jungle
Swamp
TBD
Navigable Water

Rivers are rivers (sometimes superimposed on gorges)
Roads are roads (usually on trails)
RR's are railways

Mines are Training Camps
Irrigation = Agriculture

• What seems better, all units are battalion equivalents (~300 Allied units) or battalions for all but infantry, which are brigades (~200 Allied units)?

• The map is big (114x114). Blame it on McMonkey. This means the road bonus should be large. I like 9 as in EA, but then the max mf is 14. Most planes will be paratrooper missiles to give them sufficient range (and for other reasons). Will this fly?