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  • #91
    Originally posted by Smiley
    Gave the current alpha a spin today, playing the Commonwealth. comments:

    1. too many unit choices!
    Though I appreciate the efforts at realism, there are way too many unit types of tanks, planes, and troops. A lot of them are similar in appearnce and performance as well.
    Well, I have been thinking of tweaking them a bit, so that the US standard infantry has different stats from the Chinese and Venezuelan units, for example, or the F016 and Strike Eagle being different, for example, but wondered how to do it without unbalancing the game.
    This is especially true for the "build units" screen. Many tanks, planes, etc. are built from parts that are made in different parts of the USA - a civil war would shut down production of these conventional weapons. The player should still be able to build other informal equipment. Attrittion ought to be a big part of this scenario. Tech could be a way to reopen access to the fancy toys.
    You've got a good point there, and I was going to do a limited version of that - a tech tree would be required to build new battleships. I could extend that "requirement," as it were, to build new tanks, planes, etc. Not only would it be more "realistic," as you point out, but it would also give the player an incentive to research the small tech tree I designed.

    2. AI not aggressive enough in critical opening turns.
    I pushed into Baltimore the first turn, and took Washington the 2nd. AI made no similar concentrated push of forces.
    Did you play with the CNA events file in the game? If so, a new Abrams unit should come from Washington, or Batlimore (which ever is closer to the front lines), and if you take those cities, than Richmond (or Dover - I forget) and so forth.

    I know about the AI's lack of aggression, which is why I implemented a variation of what Alex did in 2194 Days of War - generate enemy units every turn. I had memories of fighting off German Panzers in the ETO, and thought of doing something like that. Is my system too weak? What can I do to improve it? I'd go for a variation of Agricola's "dynamic defense" but I'm 1)it seems to have some problems at the moment and 2)I'm worried about taking up too much events space.
    3. Airplanes are weak.
    The AI did throw lots of planes at troops in the field, and lost almost their entire air force. At the same time, there's not enough difference in capabilities between air and ground troops. I can fly cross country in 6 hours, yet out in the West, cities are often beyond the operational radius of planes based out of adjacent cities.
    One way that would make the air-land balance work and model modern war better, is if airplanes had huge range and could take out ground troops easily, while ground troops had slower movement but are essential for taking cities.
    Well, there is the issue of game balance - I didn't want Union planes striking deep into CNA territory and later being able to run through said country unopposed. Or necessarily vice versa (though the CNA would do well to try and take Fort Knox! ).

    As for the planes' power, you do have a point, though I do have bad memories of those nigh-invincible SAM batteries from First Strike (they won't just beat planes, they'll beat ANYTHING!) Of course, if I give every city SAMs, that might alleviate things a bit (for realism, I'd probably have to change the graphic from a SAM battery to a guy with a Stinger, but that's a minor issue.)

    Also, in regards to range, I did a comparison of First Strike and my scen. In FS, an F-16 can go from San Francisco to Columbus, Ohio in a single turn. In my scenario, the same feat would require the F-16 to have a range of over 100 terrain squares!

    4. The ships aren't that useful
    Mostly, I used mine to sink enemy ships - there are only a handful of coastal cities.[/quote]
    Good point. I've wondered about the movement value of ships - They're far shorter than their real-life counterparts, but I was worried about the Union being able to too easily land a bunch of forces in New England and chew up the Commonwealth interior with a bit too much abandon. Maybe if I made the rivers navigable - would that be too unrealistic? (Well, maybe with some Neutral state troopers to prevent Iowas and Nimitzes from chugging up the Mississippi and/or some home rules to do the same.)

    5. Unit camouflage is a little too good
    Beautiful units, but I can barely see them when they are out there. Makes it had to assess the battlefield.[/quote]
    While it's not really a problem for me, I see what you mean. The scenario will come out with an optional lighter terrain pack.
    6. The guerillas and mountain troops add a lot of fun
    Let's see more of these! As someone mentioned before, there aren't really red and blue states, just red and blue cities and towns.
    True - I kept to the "red state/blue state" thing mainly for game balance to give each faction a decent amount of unified territory. Heck, the scenario begins with Santorum's home state belonging to the enemy! Do you know of any "red cities" - I couldn't think of any that were as "red" as San Francisco, New York and Los Angeles (or, in the case of the latter two, at least their elites) are "blue."

    Thanks for the comments. They're sure to help!

    On a different, yet scenario-related topic, I read some op-eds in the paper today about some politicians - namely Democrat John Arthur Evans and Republican Tim Pawlenty - who combine social conservatism with populist economics, and was wondering if one of those guys might be a better fit for the "red" politician who appeals to "purple" America. Though "President Santorum" and "The Santorum Administration" sound better than "President Pawlenty" and "The Pawlenty administration." (Wait - that last one might not be so bad) Plus there's the fact that I'd have to change my title screen. Which reminds me...

    *does puppy pout* Could somebody please try and get my title screen to work for me (you'll see a full-color version of it on the scenario's Sleague page)? I've tried running it through the Civ 2 color scheme and the color scemes of other scenario titles, but it still doesn't seem to work for me? Can anybody please help?
    The Ghost of the Disco is ... your mastermind, your mastermind!
    2013: A Union Divided|John III Sobieski|Red Storm

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    • #92
      note to future scenario title card designers: reddish browns come out really well in the civ2 palette.
      Attached Files
      Visit First Cultural Industries
      There are reasons why I believe mankind should live in cities and let nature reclaim all the villages with the exception of a few we keep on display as horrific reminders of rural life.-Starchild
      Meat eating and the dominance and force projected over animals that is acompanies it is a gateway or parallel to other prejudiced beliefs such as classism, misogyny, and even racism. -General Ludd

      Comment


      • #93
        Thanks for the title work, Smiley! I'll try it out when I can.

        And, here's a full-color potential revision of the SAM site icon:
        Attached Files
        The Ghost of the Disco is ... your mastermind, your mastermind!
        2013: A Union Divided|John III Sobieski|Red Storm

        Comment


        • #94
          Looking nice!

          http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.php?title=Home
          http://totalfear.blogspot.com/

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          • #95
            Thanks.

            I've started incorporating the Tech Tree into the game, and I've got work to do: of the techs not in the tech tree, which ones to lock, and which ones to keep? I'm using a variation of Eivind's tech tree and I get confused. Any help?

            On the plus side, I used Smiley's variation of my title screen and it works!

            Also, the Venezuelan military base is now a "city" (with a Neutral state trooper to prevent any Union occupation), which means I'll have to look at the events files and do some terrain changing to get the Chavez events back into effect.
            The Ghost of the Disco is ... your mastermind, your mastermind!
            2013: A Union Divided|John III Sobieski|Red Storm

            Comment


            • #96
              Chávez dilemma

              Some problems with the Chávez event...

              I recently modified the events texts so that the following process of events would happen if Hugo is killed:
              Airbase square becomes ocean
              Airbase square becomes grassland
              Neutral unit placed on airbase square.

              So, I modify the events file, and try out the new system, and when Chávez is killed, what do I get?

              Another Neutral state trooper in the Venezuela AFB city.

              The base (now a city, though I may go back on that) remains, as does the original Neutral state trooper (placed there to prevent Union troops from occupying the space while Chávez lives). Which means if units can spawn there, they'll still spawn after the Venezuelan government supposedly withdraws, therefore killing the significance of killing Chávez.

              Now, I know for a fact that changing a city square's terrain will kill the city, even if the new terrain isn't ocean (I vividly remember conquering Carthage in Imperium Romanum, only to see it razed to the ground.) So I might try that. Any suggestions?
              The Ghost of the Disco is ... your mastermind, your mastermind!
              2013: A Union Divided|John III Sobieski|Red Storm

              Comment


              • #97
                And for some eye candy, a revised "SAM guy" icon, both in its original form and with the MGE palette...
                Attached Files
                The Ghost of the Disco is ... your mastermind, your mastermind!
                2013: A Union Divided|John III Sobieski|Red Storm

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Chávez dilemma

                  Originally posted by GhostOfDisco
                  Some problems with the Chávez event...

                  I recently modified the events texts so that the following process of events would happen if Hugo is killed:
                  Airbase square becomes ocean
                  Airbase square becomes grassland
                  Neutral unit placed on airbase square.

                  So, I modify the events file, and try out the new system, and when Chávez is killed, what do I get?

                  Another Neutral state trooper in the Venezuela AFB city.
                  I'm not sure I understood it right: is the Venezuela AFB city the same as the airbase square?

                  If yes, then I would put the 3 lines in your process of events in 3 separate events (with the same trigger, obviously), as the Create unit takes place BEFORE the change terrain in the order of execution in a single event!

                  So what might be happening if you put the 2 last actions in the same event is (no matter in which order you wrote it): the unit is created, the terrain is changed (thus killing the unit), and then a new "neutral trooper" can appear on the (sadly) unoccupied ground... But the the airbase should have disappeared!

                  Of course, my "pretty theory" doesn't hold if you used a city instead of a airbase, because then you should notice the city disappearance! What might have happened then (sorry if I'm pointing to the obvious... ) is that you have forgotten to apply delevent and the program is still using the old set of events?
                  Ankh-Morpork, we have an orangutan...
                  Discworld Scenario: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...8&pagenumber=1
                  POMARJ Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...8&pagenumber=1
                  LOST LEGIONS Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...hreadid=169464

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    The newest alpha is OUT!
                    Included are revised graphics, a tech tree, bolstered sea and air unit movement points and attack/defend stats, and an option for lighter terrain pics.

                    In the file you'll see three different variations of the scenario. In each one is a different possbility of representing the Venezuelan military base, and the subsequent Chavez events and so forth.

                    (I'm divided right now on whether I should go with the "blank square" base or the "city" base. The latter - a Neutral city with a CNA state trooper to allow Commonwealth units to spawn in the square - has a lot of advantages, and the AI does get those jets and soldiers out of base as soon as it can, but then the CNA State Trooper is vulnerable to attack from sea and air (not land - if an attacking power tries to assault the city from land, they Neutrals will just help repair that unit. ) While the Union cannot take that city (it needs land units for that, of course, and, well, see previous comments), if the State Trooper is gone, than no more units can spawn there. So maybe I'll use the blank square - but how to prevent the Union from taking the square over before Chavez's death? If nothing else, it will be a house rule...)

                    Also, if playing a SP game as the Union, make sure to use the "events_usa" file as your events.txt file, and if playing SP as the Commonwealth, the "events_cna" one.
                    The Ghost of the Disco is ... your mastermind, your mastermind!
                    2013: A Union Divided|John III Sobieski|Red Storm

                    Comment


                    • Some thoughts occurred to me after I uploaded the release:
                      • Since neither the CNA nor Union can make tanks until the get the Mfg Plant tech (not sure what to call it), it occurred to me... why should the CNA then have to be left to making Russian tanks? Shouldn't they have their own tank? While the idea of the CNA having it's own, unique, native-designed tank has value, I'm not so sure about the implementation. Namely, the graphic - I could try, but I'm better at working from other people's stuff than completely designing my own, and I've already got some requests for graphics than still need to be done (looking forward to that Iowa, Curt! )
                      • Any way to make it longer to research techs? When I start up the game as the CNA to modify things (as the CNA are the ones with the first turn), I have to "research" Future Technology in order not to give the CNA an unfair balance in the first turn (two techs in one turn without Darwin's Voyage - what's up with that.) I tried to modify the tech paradigm in the Rules file manually, but it didn't seem to work (maybe I should try it again). Of course, the in-game editor won't let you make the number bigger than 10. Any suggestions?
                      • In another forum, someone commented that the scenario was too polarized, with the two-sided USA/CNA conflict. While this version of the scenario probably can't add any civilizations (if I make a ToT remake of this scenario, I'll probably add some more civs into the fray), I might beef up Canada and Mexico some more, to make them more "wild cards," as it were.


                      And here, for the heck of it, is an "update" on future military programs from Murdoc Online:
                      # The Air Force, in an uncommon move toward cost efficiency, is planning on standardizing on one air frame for all missions and roles. The new Air Force will see all cargo, refueling, AWACS, strategic bombing and VIP transport roles consolidated with the existing air superiority, electronic warfare, CAS and reconnaissance on the F/C/KC/VC/B/E/R/A/EW-22E Super Raptor.
                      *tries to imagine squeezing troops into an F-22 ... *
                      The Ghost of the Disco is ... your mastermind, your mastermind!
                      2013: A Union Divided|John III Sobieski|Red Storm

                      Comment


                      • You can up the tech cost by giving the players a bunch of useless techs. Tech cost is dependent on total number of techs acquired.

                        *tries to imagine squeezing troops into an F-22 ... *


                        They don't squeeze in, they ride on the outside. It's like train surfing, only in the air.
                        Visit First Cultural Industries
                        There are reasons why I believe mankind should live in cities and let nature reclaim all the villages with the exception of a few we keep on display as horrific reminders of rural life.-Starchild
                        Meat eating and the dominance and force projected over animals that is acompanies it is a gateway or parallel to other prejudiced beliefs such as classism, misogyny, and even racism. -General Ludd

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by GhostOfDisco [*]Any way to make it longer to research techs? When I start up the game as the CNA to modify things (as the CNA are the ones with the first turn), I have to "research" Future Technology in order not to give the CNA an unfair balance in the first turn (two techs in one turn without Darwin's Voyage - what's up with that.) I tried to modify the tech paradigm in the Rules file manually, but it didn't seem to work (maybe I should try it again). Of course, the in-game editor won't let you make the number bigger than 10. Any suggestions?
                          In the rules.txt under @COSMIC you can change the paradigm. Ten is the standard rate for civ2, twenty or thirty is recommended. If you really have to you could also take away some libraries. Which might be kind of nice actually, the real fun of civ2 imo is balancing the different priorities of trade and research, economic development, and military
                          Sea Kings TOT

                          Sors salutis/ et virtutis/ michi nunc contraria,/ est affectus/ et defectus/ semper in angaria./
                          Hac in hora/ sine mora/ corde pulsem tangite;/ quod per sortem/ sternit fortem,/ mecum omnes plangite!

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                          • Just a question... do you think the AI is aggressive enough? I know Smiley said it wasn't when he was playing as the CNA, but he may not have been playing with the CNA events activated (I don't know.) I playtested a bit as the Union on Deity level, and while the CNA always managed to launch aggressive counterattacks each turn, I was making progress toward its cities. There's also the issue of the units generated every turn - the idea was for the AI to use those tanks to launch its own offensives/counteroffensives, but it seems that the things are generated during my turn, as in the newly-generated tanks are sitting ducks for my planes and whatnot. Is this true when you play the game? What can I do about it?

                            Also, the AI seems to have a tendency to disband the "king" units (Santorum, Hillary, Chávez, etc.) While I can see some strategic sense in this (does the AI know what will happen if those units are killed, perhaps?), you're not supposed to disband them (if the scenario was ToT, it would be a different story.) I tried to offset the advantages of disbanding them by making the kings 0 shields each, but it seems to have no effect. Has anybody encountered this problem before (either in this scenario and in scenarios with good King units), and if so, how do I solve it?
                            (I've thought about giving Chávez the ability to paradrop, as he was a paratrooper - maybe that will make him more valuable to the AI to keep?
                            The Ghost of the Disco is ... your mastermind, your mastermind!
                            2013: A Union Divided|John III Sobieski|Red Storm

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by GhostOfDisco

                              Also, the AI seems to have a tendency to disband the "king" units (Santorum, Hillary, Chávez, etc.) While I can see some strategic sense in this (does the AI know what will happen if those units are killed, perhaps?), you're not supposed to disband them (if the scenario was ToT, it would be a different story.) I tried to offset the advantages of disbanding them by making the kings 0 shields each, but it seems to have no effect. Has anybody encountered this problem before (either in this scenario and in scenarios with good King units), and if so, how do I solve it?
                              (I've thought about giving Chávez the ability to paradrop, as he was a paratrooper - maybe that will make him more valuable to the AI to keep?
                              Are they homed to a city? Try to make them NONE units, and then with a low shield value + no "cost" on their production, the AI would have no reason to disband them!

                              I have not paid real attention to that, but I've NEVER noticed the AI disbanding a NONE unit!
                              Ankh-Morpork, we have an orangutan...
                              Discworld Scenario: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...8&pagenumber=1
                              POMARJ Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...8&pagenumber=1
                              LOST LEGIONS Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...hreadid=169464

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                              • Originally posted by Cyrion


                                Are they homed to a city? Try to make them NONE units, and then with a low shield value + no "cost" on their production, the AI would have no reason to disband them!
                                Well, they are all NONE units...
                                The Ghost of the Disco is ... your mastermind, your mastermind!
                                2013: A Union Divided|John III Sobieski|Red Storm

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