The switch from Monarchy to Republic

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
@STYOM,

That's kind of a strawman, Six. Obviously, one would not trade for techs one doesn't need or want. But, you know that.

But, your point about TOT is solid. It just means we are not talking about the same game. (The TOT AI sounds ugly.) I happen to agree with your preferred tech-path. I just think you can get Philosophy, for example, a lot faster if you can get, say, Mysticism or Writing from the AI. And I think getting a boat in the water sooner is better. But I am a trader.

As to your first point - I'll freely admit to trading for ALL techs available when MPE goes online. It's a now or never situation. As I said, I'm not an early lander - I'll take a tech I don't need at the moment on the assumption that if I don't, I'll eventually be stuck researching it later, anyway.

Another reason I don't build MPE early is that I don't necessarily want to swap until I've built my favourite early Wonders. If I'm working on Mikes, I won't want to swap Monotheism or Polytheism to an AI that's been slogging away on Pyramids for years, on the offchance that they might switch. I'd probably win the race anyway... but might have to divert 'vans from Copernicus, or something else. The way I play, the risk/reward ratio doesn't make the swap worthwhile.

So I'd happily take Mysticism or Writing... but I'd be cautious what I gave up. And if I decide not to go through with the swap, that's it - the opportunity is probably gone for good.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man


Not with ToT.

Now I understand.

[atomant]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
I don't use Rep at all - just stay in Monarchy until The Lady unleashes the hordes

Stu

a man after my own thought process

[Ecthy]

Republic comes in handy in OCC games.

Apart from that, I just wait for Mike's and a halfway decent road system. Marketplaces will be the icing.

[Old n Slow]

I'm pretty much with the sleeper on this -- monarchy is great for searching & getting out settlers -- better shield use early on. Republic allows the free growth -- great for an expanding SSC. So for me the switch occurs when I'm satisfied with my collection of early wonders & when I think I can grow the SSC accordingly.

I generally cross over after Shake's is in place with the SSC.

[Elephant]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man

In subsequent turns I'll attempt extortion, and rarely will get anything. 5 times out of 6 (sometimes 6 times out of 6), it's either a refusal, or war.

Just wondering if you were aware of the "blackout period" after getting MPE. Several players have noticed that you can get most of what you want on the turn that MPE first takes effect, but that for the next 8 turns the AI will not give you anything else, even if you have alliances. After the blackout they will trade again, if their attitude is reasonably high and the correct Power Rating relationships are in place. I'll see if I can find a thread on the subject.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Elephant


Just wondering if you were aware of the "blackout period" after getting MPE. Several players have noticed that you can get most of what you want on the turn that MPE first takes effect, but that for the next 8 turns the AI will not give you anything else, even if you have alliances. After the blackout they will trade again, if their attitude is reasonably high and the correct Power Rating relationships are in place. I'll see if I can find a thread on the subject.

I had noticed that in 2.42, but didn't think it was an actual phenomenon.

I have found that in ToT, AI attitudes deteriorate rapidly following first contact, and stay deteriorated. To the point where I'm happy to see "Uncooperative".

[Bloody Monk]

When that statement first came out I started a response along the same line of thinking but cancelled because of the ToT aspect of STYOM's experience. It may not be the same. But, all else being equal, Elephant's point is right on. Something to test at any rate.

Even in 2.42, demanding every turn will eventually get war.

The original topic had something to do with whether or when to build MPE. I looked at an old game and stopped counting at the discovery of Railroad. At that point I had traded for 11 techs. When you consider that Darwin "costs" twice as much and only gives you two techs, 11 makes for a fracking good deal. And none were had willy-nilly but as needed. I think MPE is a very good WOW to have.

But, I don't own ToT. That game could well be a very different breed of cat.

Monk