Just some things

[defrancoj]

First of all, When is it appropriate to build Adam Smith's (in single player, just playing for general success, if that makes any sense).

Second of all, what are the schools of thought regarding the order in which you improve a city? Alternate between tax and science improvements? build all of one and then all of the other? When do the contentment improvements become necessary to sustain WLTKD?

Any ideas? My skill level does not really reflect the amount of time I've spent playing this (infernal) game!

[Scouse Gits]

As you might imagine there are as many city buildup strategies as there are Civ2 players and just to make it worse the strategy has to be flexible to account for special circumstances and game stage. Having said that I shall try and outline a generic strategy that I think will be acceptable to most of us - and then they will tear it down
Rule 1: The typical empire has three categories of city: priviledged, heartland and frontier each with a different perspective.
Rule 2: White goods (city improvements - they appear white in the F2 screen) are (almost) always bought outright once the first shields have been added. - Cash does not earn interest and a city building an improvement can't make a caravan or a military unit.

Priviledged Cities - the capital, the Super Science City (if different) and probably no other cities until the late middle game - get everything as soon as the cash is available to build them.

Heartland Cities - the rest until a frontier becomes apparent exist only to spawn Settlers and Caravans. They get the minimum to support their size from a happiness perspective, Market Place once they are producing 4 gold consistently - rely heavily upon WoWs for general happiness issues, but frequently have Elvii or Temples - but only when absolutely necessary and use Warriors for martial law.

Frontier Cities - you will quickly see which these are - are responsible for the defence and expansion of the empire - they are Heartland Cities with Barracks and occasionally City Walls that produce military units - generally offensive ones as attack is definitely the best defence in Civ2.

WLTxD - is not generally available to a city that has fewer than two decent trade routes (with the Capital or SSC) and it is not generally cost effective trying to achieve celebration with improvements until the trade routes are in place. Once a city can consistently celbrate it is worthy of consideration for upgrading to Priviledged status - but watch the exchequer too many priviledged cities can drain funds better spent upon rush buying 'vans and military.

OK guys there's my two cents - tear it appart....

Cheers, Stu

[Ecthy]

That's the F1 screen BTW, not the F2. Stu talks about general improvements as opposed to wonders and units

[defrancoj]

ok, i like it, thanks, Stu.

Now, let me follow up: suppose there's a decent size city and I'm celebrating it. So its size is going to be going up from say 6 or 8 to say 12 or higher. What's the smartest way to keep it celebrating? add a stock exchange or a colosseum? Which one should come first? In general, what's better, a higher lux rate or more contentment improvements?

[defrancoj]

also, since stock exchanges are available so much earlier than their counterparts (research labs), what implications does that have for the appropriate tax settings?

[Ecthy]

To keep celebrating, make sure many red faces turn blue and many blue ones turn light blue. For this, you have to build happy improvements (also colosseums, though it's possible some of these strategy experts have a different opinion on this) and economy improvements. So yes to stock markets and colosseums from me.

Tax settings: you don't need much surplus in money. Get money from trade, try and avoid losing too much by tax setting, keep luxury around 30%. I usually go 30 lux, 30 tax, 40 science in the late game, though 2.2.6 is possible earlier in the game.

[defrancoj]

ecthy,
thanks for the tips. I should mention that I'm quite familiar with the game mechanics (I got the impression that you got the impression that I don't know what the necessary conditions are for WLTKD).

Re: stockmarkets and colosseums: I was asking, which would i build first in the situation described.

You say that 2.2.6 is possible earlier in the game: how much celebrating are you able to get done on those settings?

I'm really trying to work on being the strongest kid on the block from the beginning/middle of the game, rather than floundering for most of it and then exploding past the AI well into the modern era.

Stu: can you tell me more about the 4 gold-marketplace rule you mentioned above?

Thanks again,
Jim

[Ecthy]

For celebrating you need higher luxury than 20. What to build first? I usually build stock market first and colosseum later.

As far as the 4-gold rule is concerned: a market place cost 1 gold maintenance. If you spend 80 shields on it and it doesn't pay off, the time to build / money t obuy was wasted for the time being. If a city produces 4 gold on its own, it means the market place, that adds 50% to gold, returns 2 gold instead of only one. So a market place becomes real productive as soon as a city produces 4 gold on its own. Of course you can build it earlier, but then you lose time and production to build more important things, like settlers, caravans and catapults

[Scouse Gits]

Colosseums? What are they? I suspect I have only ever built about half a dozen in all my years at this game. Once a city is financially viable the WoWs and the financial institutions will keep it celebrating. If the city is not financially viable it doesn't deserve priviledged status.

Get those trade routes in place and see the difference they make!!

Cheers, Stu

Ecthy accurately addressed the 4 gold question.

[Scouse Gits]

As an aside:

At some stage you will be rolling over largish cities from the AI - a rather fun strategy is to have three 'vans join your shock troops for each city - that way you get the enhanced bonus of trade with a foreign city which helps pay for its conquest and you then get a city with three trade routes in place

Stu

[defrancoj]

I am surprised to hear you say that you don't build colosseums! When my 'privleged' cities get large (21-35) the redhatters show up (raining on the WLTKD). I suppose I could keep them at bay with a higher lux rate.... is that more efficient than using a colosseum?

If you guys will continue to indulge me, I want to turn the attention toward earlier phases of the game. It always seems as if I'm just hanging on until the late game, when I surge past the AI. Why might that be? why the slow start/bogged down phase, and how to beat it?

[Ecthy]

Never thought Colosseums were this useless

[vorlon_mi]

I'll take a crack at the OP question about Adam Smith's..

I love that one, to relieve the cost pressure
and allow me to push up the science rate.
This is also useful if I've switched to fundy in the later
game. I use the extra gold from the tithes to push
my science rate very high, to make up for some of the
science penalty in fundy.
Reducing the gold required for upkeep on some buildings
lets me push it a notch higher.

Having more gold also lets me cash-rush caravans or
tanks, as well.

w.r.t. factories, I try to build them in cities that are
shield-rich, that will likely build the bigger SS parts,
like modules and components. I've not yet mastered
the Early Landing techniques for prepping for,
and then rushing, all the spaceship parts in one turn.
That would require more cities (20, 24?) that are
productive enough to be candidates.
Short answer: build factories, in some places, if you want SS victory. If you're going for conquest,
you may not need them.

[Grigor]

By a Slow Start - do you mean having trouble getting to Monarchy by 2000BC and Trade by 1500BC? Or do you mean something later?

In the very beginning I find that eschewing roadbuilding is the single most effective strategy for maximizing speed. There are exceptions, but they are rare. Get those cities down fast! You can connect them with roads on your next round of settlers (after the happiness maximum) and still be ready in plenty of time for efficient trading, especially since the first use of caravans tends to be to build MPE.

Techs from huts before monarchy must be closely monitored - the tech cost rises so quickly that if I get as many as one ill timed hut from a hut I stop popping huts until monarchy. The chance of it helping is outweighed by the cost in time if it does not help.

In the huge uncharted wash from MPE to Democracy I too am less speedy. Solo is unbelievably fast there, as are the Gits, though they generally avoid representative governments as WC Fields avoided water...

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by defrancoj
I am surprised to hear you say that you don't build colosseums! When my 'privleged' cities get large (21-35) the redhatters show up (raining on the WLTKD). I suppose I could keep them at bay with a higher lux rate.... is that more efficient than using a colosseum?

If you guys will continue to indulge me, I want to turn the attention toward earlier phases of the game. It always seems as if I'm just hanging on until the late game, when I surge past the AI. Why might that be? why the slow start/bogged down phase, and how to beat it?

.. and therein lies a tale!

For me only my cap or SSC ever grows over 20 odd what possible use are these enormous cities with their expensive aquaducts and sewer systems rather have more size 8 or 12 cities except perhaps in the very late game. Now 35 or morte cities - now you're talking!

Stu