Capitals and Spaceships

[okosling]

In the game I am now playing, I have launched a spaceship, but it is not a very fast one. One of the AI is building a spaceship which looks like being faster than mine when launched. I understand that if I capture their capital, I can bring their spaceship back to Earth - is that right? To do that, do I have to wait until they actually launch it? What happens if I capture their capital before they launch it? Will that spaceship be destroyed before launch or will it relocate to their new capital? (they do have more than 1000 gold).

[rah]

Must wait till it's launched or they will just change their capital.

[Elephant]

Their gold will guarantee that they will successfully relocate their capital and the "spaceship control center" (think Houston). But if you can take it now, go ahead - you will not cause the ship to crash, but you will decrease their treasury significantly and force the Palace to relocate to a hopefully less-well-defended site. Keep bringing in more troops, though, because you're going to have to do it again for every 1000 gold (and remaining city). I find it is usually easier the second and following times, as they have not gathered or rushed as many defenders in new capitals.

[rjmatsleepers]

My recollection from the last democracy game is that capturing the capital will not bring the spaceship down if they have enough gold to move their capital. In the democracy game we also split their empire which made life easier. Capturing their new capital did bring the spaceship back.

If they have railways everywhere and you have lots of howies, you should be able to chase the capital. But beware that it could move to somewhere that is difficult for you to reach.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Beware if you are waaay behind the AI. If you bring back spaceship #1 by capturing the capital, and they subsequently build another, the second ship cannot be recalled.

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
Beware if you are waaay behind the AI. If you bring back spaceship #1 by capturing the capital, and they subsequently build another, the second ship cannot be recalled.

Not always.

I must acknowledge up front that my memory has developed serious "leaks" of late. That said, I recall that the Demo game mentioned previously by rjm had several spaceship crashes (of the same Civ). So, I must ask, Six, if your statement is verified in gameplay or testing. Perhaps the difference is in the way the game was created, for that Demo game had an open tech tree (again, if IRC) and so was not a "normal" game.

And, btw, the Apolytoner's were waaaaay, waaaay behind in that game. The rules guaranteed it. It is worth looking it over from the opening. It shows that against the Civ AI, no matter how desperate the situation, nothing is truly hopeless.

Monk

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Sorry, I should probably rephrase that.

If you bring down the spaceship by taking the capital, I have found that the the AI will often not re-establish a capital (esp. in Fundy). In those cases, the only way to stop the spaceship is by capturing every city...

[Bloody Monk]

@ STYOM

Ah, yes, that would be different.

And I mayn't be remembering the full of it, as well. Perhaps rjm will jump in again. I may be mixing up things. Seems like the Ship did not crash, the first time, with the capture of the Capital as the Capital moved. But taking down the next one, on the same turn (may not matter), brought the Ship back in flames.

There is a valuable lesson here, though. Attack in massive force. You may have to take more cities than you think.

Monk

[Elephant]

Sounds like: if there is a capital, capturing it without it relocating will crash the spaceship, but if they launch a spaceship without having a capital you cannot cause it to crash, you must wipe out all the civ's cities. Right?

[Bloody Monk]

Thinking more, I must admit that I have no memory of an AI launching w/o a Capital. (Comes from playing too few games where I let the AI launch... and not paying that much attention to the AI status even then.) It could very well happen, though.

There are others, Starlifter comes to mind, who regularly (and on purpose) play deep into the game with strong AI's.

This question would be tedious to test--and , at the same time--be sure of the result. So game experience is where this one will be answered. Having an unknown factor is kind of cool, so I wouldn't be overwrought if this one goes unanswered.

Monk

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

I can verify that when the AI loses (a) capital(s) and subsequently launches a spaceship in a capitalless nation, it can't be recalled other than by total conquest.

I have never been in a situation where the AI had a spaceship recalled and subsequently launched one after a new capital had been designated. That's probably due to capital chasing on my part.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
@ STYOM

Ah, yes, that would be different.

And I mayn't be remembering the full of it, as well. Perhaps rjm will jump in again. I may be mixing up things. Seems like the Ship did not crash, the first time, with the capture of the Capital as the Capital moved. But taking down the next one, on the same turn (may not matter), brought the Ship back in flames.

There is a valuable lesson here, though. Attack in massive force. You may have to take more cities than you think.

Monk

Monk's memory is better than mine - I had to refresh by looking at the demo game postings. His description is exactly right. The Zulus had launched and were one turn away from landing. We captured their capital, but the space-ship did not return. Their capital was re-established elsewhere and their empire split.

Monk's comment about attacking in force is most apposite. I at least had no idea that capturing the initial capital was not going to be sufficient. Fortunately, we had enough howies (and they had enough railways) that we could capture their new capital on the same turn which did bring the spaceship back. Subsequently we mopped up most of the Zulu empire and launched our own ship 20 odd turns later.

Incidentally, we had to wait for the Zulus to declare war on us since one of the house rules was maintaining a spotless reputation. I don't recollect any other civ launching, so I can't comment on whether a second ship can be brought back. My recollection is that rather than having no capital, one of the AI civs had 2 capitals!

RJM at Sleeper's

[Elephant]

Somewhere in the back of my brain was rattling around a memory of a "trick" where you prep the spaceship and then disband the city with your Palace before launching, which makes it impossible to crash it by city capture (unless you take them all). Sounded like something Xin Yu would come up with.

A Spotless Rep game with no wooden ships might be an interesting succession challenge...

[rah]

I seem to remember mention of the disband trick also.

But like most here, I rarely let the AI launch Or get much past gunpowder.

[debeest]

Couldn't you just sell your palace instead of disbanding the city? Or is it impossible to sell your palace? (Not something I've ever tried to do. )

RJM, I can verify, from a game soon after I started playing, that it's possible to crash spaceships from three different civs in order to squeak out a win.