Star Wars ideas

[techumseh]

I thought it worthwhile to make a separate thread for SW ideas, since Fairline's considerable talents have led in an unexpected direction.

There used to be a fair number of SW scenarios which might still be available in the archives. One of the first, and still one of the best, is the one by Paul Caldwell. He converted much of the sounds and images of the first SW movies into a large scenario of the entire galaxy (you know, that far, far away one). I still have it if anyone wants. I recall two others as well: the Battle of Hoth and the Battle of Endor.

I experimented with variations of Caldwell's scenarios endlessly - it was really my first foray into scenario making. I worked on a variation which included some civs from the books (episodes VII -IX): the Happan, the Ssri-Ruuvi and the Black Sun crime organization. I made a number of units which are crude by today's standards, but I'll send them along to anyone who's interested.

I also worked on a concept to tie episodes I - VI together, and I still think this is the best bet for a grand project. I'll try to find my notes, but it included the Imperials (Sith), the Old Republic, the New Republic (Jedi Order), the Trade Federation, and the Separatists as distinct civs. Obviously this would require a great deal of work on new units from episodes I - III, so it my not be feasable.

Test of Time would obviously be my choice for a vehicle, however one obvious idea proved to be futile. You can't really use a second map for hyperspace. Since ships need to carry troops and fighters, they must be ships. But you can't change the move cost of ocean. It's always 1. So you can't go any faster on another map. It's too bad, but maybe the creative minds around here can find an alternative.

[Harry Tuttle]

I don't think travel time can ever be effected except in the case of having "jump points" at the edges of a set of wrap-around galaxy maps. Of course jump points are not a part of the Star Wars universe.

The trouble is that we think of hyperspace as being a faster mode of conveyance instead of the door to other star systems. We have to remember that without hyperdrive those little tie fighters will probably never make it to the other star systems, much less with their pilots alive. Without hyperdrive travel to other star systems is next to impossible. So I think we should, at least using Civ2, define hyperspace as a doorway to other star systems, not a faster means of travel.

Instead of defining space as being a large, open area, why not divide up star systems using impassable terrain or immobile units? By dividing up the systems and making travel to and from each system impossible on the "system" map you would effectively have to make the player jump to another map, "hyperspace", to exit a system.

Ships without hyperdrives could never exit a system, eliminating the possibility that over time a non-hyperspace capable ship could reach another star system or just wander aimlessly around the open areas of the map.

[fairline]

Re: Star Wars ideas

Originally posted by techumseh
There used to be a fair number of SW scenarios which might still be available in the archives. One of the first, and still one of the best, is the one by Paul Caldwell. He converted much of the sounds and images of the first SW movies into a large scenario of the entire galaxy (you know, that far, far away one). I still have it if anyone wants. I recall two others as well: the Battle of Hoth and the Battle of Endor.

It's been years since I had the last two on my HD. I can't say I ever came across the Caldwell one - and yes please, can i have it?

There's a scenario by Kobayashi (SW Insurrection) with some nice touches in terms of unit properties for capitol ships and fighters - it's available at CivFan.

I experimented with variations of Caldwell's scenarios endlessly - it was really my first foray into scenario making. I worked on a variation which included some civs from the books (episodes VII -IX): the Happan, the Ssri-Ruuvi and the Black Sun crime organization. I made a number of units which are crude by today's standards, but I'll send them along to anyone who's interested.

I also worked on a concept to tie episodes I - VI together, and I still think this is the best bet for a grand project. I'll try to find my notes, but it included the Imperials (Sith), the Old Republic, the New Republic (Jedi Order), the Trade Federation, and the Separatists as distinct civs. Obviously this would require a great deal of work on new units from episodes I - III, so it my not be feasable.

That shouldn't be too much of a problem I think that's a great idea - an epic encompassing both trilogies.

Test of Time would obviously be my choice for a vehicle, however one obvious idea proved to be futile. You can't really use a second map for hyperspace. Since ships need to carry troops and fighters, they must be ships. But you can't change the move cost of ocean. It's always 1. So you can't go any faster on another map. It's too bad, but maybe the creative minds around here can find an alternative.

How about doing away with the traditional 'ocean-as-space' concept; space could be an impassable land terrain with spacecraft given the move on impassible flag. Then have railways as hyperspace routes. Would that work?

[techumseh]

Re: Re: Star Wars ideas

How about doing away with the traditional 'ocean-as-space' concept; space could be an impassable land terrain with spacecraft given the move on impassible flag. Then have railways as hyperspace routes. Would that work?

I'm working with the assumption that ships would be ships, so they could transport various other units: jedi, starfighters, stormtroopers, etc. So that requires space to be ocean terrain.

If you use land units as ships, which Kobi has done in some of his scenarios, then 2 maps works fine. You just give each hyper-space capable ship the native ability to move to the second map and set the land terrain move cost to zero. The ship can go anywhere at no MP cost and simply reappear on the main map in a new location.

[Harry Tuttle]

Re: Re: Star Wars ideas

Originally posted by fairline
How about doing away with the traditional 'ocean-as-space' concept; space could be an impassable land terrain with spacecraft given the move on impassible flag. Then have railways as hyperspace routes. Would that work?

What about the carrier flag for large ships? Tie Fighters and Interceptors don't have a hyperdrive so it would be unrealistic for them to travel unescorted. Also, as Tech just mentioned in a near miss cross post, army units need ships to get around.

[Harry Tuttle]

I also would, if I were to make a Star Wars scenario, use Koby's design for large planets, ie. planets that use about 9 or so ground tiles to depict a large planet. That way the ground troops would actualy play a role in a large space oriented scenario.

[curtsibling]

I think using gateways as map travel is OK.

Anyone who has played TIE-Fighter or Balance of Power will know
that the SW universe has an established star traffic system.

The movies do not dwell on such mundane items as how ships
have to wait at jump depots to reload and join new lanes,
but we can add this kind of thing as a mandatory part of
CIV2 SW space travel.

[Boco]

It's flawed, but maybe it'll give a spark to some genius.

Space = Ocean

Hyperspace = map3, mainly ocean

Hyperspace transports = ship, transport, para, can only be built on map3, no ability to leave map3.

Para range = max civ allows

map3 has ocean airbases spread judiciously (worm holes? oops, wrong scifi epic)

Map3 to mapx movement?
• Use nonpara ship tranports with teleporting ability (native or via teleport sites)?
• Use teleporter city improvements?

[Edit]
Land units have native teleport ability to/from map3, but are limited to where they can get into map3 (because it's mostly ocean). Land units can teleport directly from hyperspace transport to a planet on mapx (it's land).

Does any of this make sense? I'm pretty tired at the moment.
[/Edit]

[techumseh]

Here's a few of the better units I made for my Star Wars mod back before (To)Time.

[Art of War]

i started a New Jedi Order scenario about a year and a half ago, had the map totally done, just couldn't get anyone to help with units or anything. i could pass along those files if anyone would like to use them.

[Arthedain]

Art of War: Weren't you going to do a Clone Wars scenario too? That would be awesome. Imagine playing as the Seperatists and do what they did in the movies (and the animated series), suprise attack the heart of the Republic, Coruscant. That would be awesome.

That was always my idea of a good Star Wars scenario - the Clone Wars. Using the 9 tile planets by kobayashi. I even found a large map of the SW Galaxy if anyones interested (not hard to find if you use google).

[Art of War]

yeah i had contemplated doing a clone wars scenario, but couldn't get any units together.

[Sarsstock]

Well I suppose a simple idea would be a small scale conflict scenario similar to "Malta" by Rmsharpe. It could take place on a small obscure outter rim planet, where a Rebel Alliance sympathising planet is about to be invaded by the dreaded Imperial 501st Legion (Vader's Fist).

The planet's defenders must hold the line on they're small peacefull world against the Storm Troopers until the Rebel Alliance can send in supplies if not actual troops and hardware.

I think there are enough graphics when it comes to terrain, cities and Fairline's new units out there already for just such a project.

[Patine]

Great idea, Chris! I think it should have two maps, a planetside one and an orbital one, so that both land and speeder units AND starfighters and capital ships can shine. You'd have to survive on the planet, then get into orbit and run the blockade to escape.

[Harry Tuttle]

I like the idea of having 3 maps included.

The first map could be space,with various solar systems depicted, complete with major planets. These would be segregated like I mentioned before with my hyperspace idea post. Cities on the planet tiles would be depicted by teleporters that would teleport ground troops to the second map.

The second map would represent planet surfaces with multiple surfaces segregated on the map, reachable by the corresponding coordinates of the teleporters on the segregated planets. So, invade Planet Tatooine, teleport to the surface to muck up Mos Eisley.

The third map is hyperspace.