intermediate concepts

[Gravy Smoothie]

So I recently picked up Civ II again (MGE). Most of the players on this board are far beyond my skill level... I played Chieftain-Prince before I found these boards. After I discovered Apolyton a couple years ago, I won a space race or two on Deity, mostly due to good starting positions and perfectionist play. It seems that both my conquest skills and a couple other intermediate talents are lacking. Searching the GL, I could not find much in terms of strategy for the following questions:

1) How do you establish ourself defensively, especially early game? Specifically, how many/what type of defensive units in cities, y/n on city walls, and what units should I have outside of cities?

2) What percentage of the time is any given city pumping out a caravan? This board places huge emphasis on trade, but I can't seem to find the right balance between no 'vans and all 'vans.

Any other helpful tips would be appreciated as well.

-GS

[Grigor]

Welcome back to Civ II.

I assume you are addressing Single Play issues. Everything changes agains a human opponent. I will try to give some suggestions, and I hope you will forgive me if I am saying stuff you already know.

(1) Establishing a defensive position is not normally an issue against the AI. Other civs can usually be appeased diplomatically. You can give them any tech they demand and still pass them later. Even if they declare war, they will be approachable after a few turns.

Barbarians normally do not appear until 3150BC. Barbarian attacks against your capital (if it is your only city) will always fail, so the warrior you build for happiness control on Deity is sufficient for the earliest part of the game. Barbs from very early huts also have strong chance of disappearing without attacking you. Barbs are also weaker on defence than non-barb units of identical type. (Barb archers defence bonus of 1) So a good plan for barb archers is to take them out with horsemen. I have had poor results attempting to weaken a barb archer by an attack with an extra warrior - even weakened, a Barb archer often plows through a warrior defending a city.

In an emergency I prefer to defend with horsemen for counterattack rather than phalanxes for defence. A phalanx will lose seldom, but inconveniently often. I will consider a phlanx for barb defence only if the city is on a river or forest, and even then, after it survives a barb attack, a 2-move unit will be necessary nearby to snare the barb leader.

Never build city walls. Avoid building roads until the discovery of Trade.

Units outside of cities should be mostly for exploration, and you should have a bunch of them, depending on the map. If there is a lot of water, an early exploation by trireme is usually the optimal strategy. Always have a unit loaded into your trireme.

External units for defence should be used sparingly. A unit on prime defensive terrain can ease problems from the AI, especially if it is at a "choke point" which prevents them from approaching your civ any nearer. One of the most illustrative strategies is to fortify a phalanx on a mountain in AI territory. The AI never tires of sending suicide squadrons to immolate themselves. After the discovery of writing an accompanying unit (usually a diplomat) is necessary. Later a fortress can be built; and even in the late game the strategy is powerful with vet alpine units.

For defence near your initial cluster of four cities, a 2-move attacking unit is usually all that is necessary. Depending on terrain and the size of your initial land grab, you may need more than one unit, but certainly no more than one per city. After writing, a single diplomat and a war chest of 81gp or more can take care of most barb attacks.

(2) Solo is the expert on the balance betwen no vans and all vans. I think the larger issue is to balance exploration, growth, foreign trade, and wonder building.

Never assign your cities to building wonders - use caravans instead. Caravans allow the exploit of Partial Rush-Buying, which alone gives the human supremacy over the AI.

Foreign trade in demanded commodities is the most advantageous early game strategy, and when it becomes a possibility, a tremendous effort should be devoted to it. Internal trade does not provide enough payoff in most circumstances (but see the 2-continent trading strategy in the GL at the top of the Strategy forum).

Many players like to develop a Super Science City by concentrating happiness wonders and building scientific improvements. Usually only one city is appropriate for that. Avoid building city improvements in other cities except temples. Internal trade routes with the Super Science City can be advantageous if the two cities re connected by road along the 'optimal path," and foreign trade from the SSC in demanded commodities is truly fun.

Humans beat the AI by outgrowing it, outbuilding it, or out-sciencing it. The AI likes to get its cities to size 3 before building settlers. Since a size 1 city only requres 20 food to get to size 2, this is an inane strategy. Dave V's initial rule is still powerful: at size 1, set workers to maximize food. From the moment you hit size 2, set your workers to maximize production.

In the very early game, I like to use the Size 1 Settler exploit. Your capital, if it is your only city, will not disband when it builds a settler at size 1, so delaying the placement of a second city and slowing growth for a few turns by setting workers to forest can save a box of food. This strategy comes at a temporary cost of science and of exploration, and is often not available; but it is always worth considering at the beginning. Your second settler will be more than adequate protection if an early Barb archer calls.

If you get the Hanging Gardens early, your civ can get to 12 cities in the late BC years, at which time the AI will be strategically toast.

I hope this is along the lines of what you were looking for.

[Scouse Gits]

Very nice analysis, Grigor.
I would beg to differ on a few small points, but they are largely a matter of style rather than dogma.

Follow the above and you will not go far wrong Gravy

Stu

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Re: intermediate concepts

Originally posted by Gravy Smoothie
Searching the GL, I could not find much in terms of strategy for the following questions:

1) How do you establish ourself defensively, especially early game? Specifically, how many/what type of defensive units in cities, y/n on city walls, and what units should I have outside of cities?

2) What percentage of the time is any given city pumping out a caravan? This board places huge emphasis on trade, but I can't seem to find the right balance between no 'vans and all 'vans.

Any other helpful tips would be appreciated as well.

I have a few ideas on these points (assuming you are on Deity level).

1) Grigor is right - Horsemen are generally better defenders in the early game than Phalanxes. When I build a new city on clear terrain, I usually garrison it with a Warrior (for martial law purposes) and a Horseman. Exceptions would be the situations where your city has a lot of rough terrain around it (forest/hills/mountains) - in which case a better defense is often Phalanx/Diplomat, or 2 Horsemen. The best defence is generally a good offense.

Generally "no" to walls, unless the city is deep in enemy territory, on a chokepoint, or otherwise exposed. Generally the only units I have outside cities are exploring units, Settlers, and shipping.

Couple of tricks I like:

Hurry to get Marco Polo's Embassy. Once you have it, trade and gift techs to the AI civs to get them to Friendly/Worshipful attitude, and then ask to swap maps. Note that this will not work well if your reputation is less than Spotless. Once you know where the AIs are, you'll be better able to decide which cities are in high-risk areas, and you'll be able to plan your trading strategy too (see below). I generally avoid swapping techs before I research my 20th tech, because research costs go up dramatically after you research tech #20.

Build the odd fortress in areas that seem to spawn a lot of barbarians. Barb leaders tend to gravitate to those with their escort, and you can then kill the (stacked) escort without losing out on the 150 g for the leader.

2) I will build Caravans whenever there is no really urgent need for anything else. It's really a matter of feel more than anything else. If I have a big, trade-rich city that has free supply commodities, AND I have a clear path to an overseas AI, I'll nearly always be building caravans in that city. And if I need to stop to build a key improvement like a university, or Isaac Newton's College, I'll rushbuild it in 2 turns (or use food Caravans for a WoW) so I can go back to building Caravans. Even if you can't trade with anyone, you can build a food 'van for wonder construction purposes. And where possible, trade with the AI - an overseas AI city demanding your goods can be ridiculously profitable.

[atawa]

Winning on deity: The easy way.

Just build HG/Mike and expand like wildfire, send masses of dips/crooks to AI and buy/kill them.

[rjmatsleepers]

All the above points are good, but I'll add my two bits worth anyway.

As far as defence is concerned, I like to have a centrally located diplo that can rush towards any threatened area.
I sometimes build a city with walls on a mountain if there is a suitable location to act as a choke point.
I don't usually tech gift nuclear fission and stop tech gifting when I discover flight.
I build up vans and money and turn down research so that I can build apollo and then complete the space ship in the minimum time (which depends on your number of cities and the date). This gives the AI civs less time to get frisky.

As far as vans are concerned, the wisest advice I ever saw was "don't build anything except a van unless there is a very good reason - and if there is a very good reason, build a van anyway."

RJM at Sleeper's