Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

tiny maps

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • tiny maps

    I've been playing on very small maps lately and it may be that Civ 2 "works" better under such conditions. The AI's tactical ineptitude is minimized, for one thing, and land pressure forces the creation of genuine borders with rival civs. That is, if you want to grow and then feed your cities, you'd better create a border that keeps AI units out. Concepts we all like but rarely see in practice come up more, like trade bonuses for road/rail connections, and they get put into play in a more "natural" way. Of course, this puts stress on the diplomacy system, since if you occupy a fort in a square within the radii of two cities belonging to rivals, peace treaties won't last more than two turns. Also, rivals tend to reduce each other to two or three pretty quickly even with respawns. But anyway, the friction caused by proximity makes it possible to play a non-early conquest game (too hit-and-miss for my taste) with a military paradigm that seems closer to what the designers were trying to achieve. I find myself using units formerly considered useless, like the fighter vs. ground, the marine (to occupy forts and only pay one support instead of having a cav and a rifle, and be cheaper than tanks), the legion/knight (if i end up with chivalry early enough) even partisans for getting in there and ripping up terrirtory I dont really want to occupy. The AI military, though still retarded, does manage to attack in force, pillage infrastructure, sometimes stack its artillery with infantry. Not to mention, smaller map means fewer cities/units, less mind-numbing micromanagement.

    Playing this way has me calling into question the validity of "daisy-chaining," or exploiting the fact that you can always move a unit into a square you already occupy, regardless of ZOC considerations. I might try to play without the daisy-chaining from now on.

    What would be a truly fantastic achievement is if we had Civ 2 remade to allow for dozens of civilizations. That way, these same advantages of the small map could be had on a large map; civs would eat each other and then find themselves bordering up against other civs in turn as the game progressed.

  • #2
    Interesting idea. How small are your maps?

    Comment


    • #3
      small as possible, like 25x40.

      25x40=1000, the minimum area allowed

      Comment


      • #4
        I wonder if the gigamap/no-limit mods for MGE and ToT would allow maps smaller than the minimum, the way they allow larger maps? Gonna have to try that...
        "I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

        "Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
        "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)

        Comment


        • #5
          I tried a few tiny maps this weekend, and there are some very annoying problems. First of all, I can't find a setting which doesn't have nearly all mountains or hills. In none of the three games were there places for all 7 civs, and one had only three. The polar start with 2 whales was actually the best starting position. So any suggestions for getting a habitable map will be appreciated.

          And I detected no greater intellignce from the AI, which still sent warriors and phalanxes on attack against a fortified vet archer in a city, and spent many turns roading 6 mountains to nowhere..

          Comment


          • #6
            yes, the AI is still retarded. I also noticed the problem with finding starting positions, which greatly annoys me. If someone could comment on the way the game chooses starting positions maybe we could do somethign about that. I haven't had a problem with terrain types as you describe. You could always use the random map generator available in the archives; I've had a lot of fun with that little app in general.

            Regarding the AI's military skills: did you get very much past ancient era fighting? I agree that they still do not exhibit much in the way of tactical genius, but they do seem to be able to at least give me something to worry about, attacking in appreciable numbers, pillaging terrain, and at least occasionally stackign artillery. (Usually not. Annoyingly, they usually simply leave cannons piled up around my cities so I can tediously destroy them.)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Grigor
              I tried a few tiny maps this weekend, and there are some very annoying problems. First of all, I can't find a setting which doesn't have nearly all mountains or hills. In none of the three games were there places for all 7 civs, and one had only three. The polar start with 2 whales was actually the best starting position. So any suggestions for getting a habitable map will be appreciated.
              Have you tried a utility like CivMapGen? Perhaps being able to fine tune the terrain type a bit more would eliminate the hill/mountain problems.

              Can't help you with the stupid AI.
              "I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

              "Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
              "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)

              Comment


              • #8
                On a Macintosh?? I am utility-free. A true purist

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Grigor
                  I can't find a setting which doesn't have nearly all mountains or hills.
                  This sounds like fun!!

                  I think the key to fewer mountains would be a young world, 3mm yrs. Though, regular small rocks seem to have an excess of mountains, too. Moderate Temp and Dry or Mod Climate might get more Plains than Swamp.

                  Getting all 7 civs is improbable. To avoid huge tech costs, start as Purple and hope for a polar connection to the mainland. Or rush to MapMaking and build a boat to move your Settlers.

                  Probably requires a lot of attempts to get a worthwhile start.

                  What have you found??

                  Monk
                  so long and thanks for all the fish

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    @ Grigor, STYOM, et all,

                    I played with map size, etc and came up with this. It is not the smallest at 38X40 and you get 3 techs at start, but otherwise, it should be fun...

                    Monk
                    Attached Files
                    so long and thanks for all the fish

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Downloaded and played a few turns. Succession/Comparison, anyone? It should be quick, and no nasty rules...

                      I'll play 20 and then save and see if there's any interest.
                      "I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

                      "Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
                      "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks, STYOM, great idea.

                        This should be quite fun. I wish I could play, but alas, not yet. I hope many folk will take part. I especially like the no rules (except for the obvious like no reloading) part. I suspect the thorny rulesets of recent games puts off many folk from giving it a try.

                        Monk
                        so long and thanks for all the fish

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X