StuporMan's Supply And Demand Calculator

[Kataphraktoi]

it complains i need a .dll file(that i dont have) to run it.

[StuporMan]

Which DLL does it say that you need? I used Visual Basic 6 to code this and used all standard controls, so AFAIK all you would need to run this is a Windows operating system. Which version of Windows are you running?

The only other thing I can think of is that you might need the Visual Basic Runtime in order for this to run properly. You can find that HERE.

Let me know if this helps,
StuporMan

[Kataphraktoi]

yes, i dont have runtime on atm

[Ell_man]

I'm having a hard time describing what I'm about to write so feel free to ask me to clarify.

In order to save time, I'd like to see the ability to create templates of data entry. For example, take a Super Science city in an early landing game. Most games, the SSC evolves the same way. It has various stages such as
pre WLTXD,
size 8,
size 12,
First time it reaches max growth
Max growth with special techs like combustion, nuclear fission, industrialization, etc.

I think it'd be nice if you could create a button of some sort to change the non-terrain data to fit these criteria. This way you'd be able to see how the s/d lists would change over time much easier. The criteria would have to be customizable although you could probably create some default general ones.

If I'd be allowed to dream, I think it'd be amazing if it were possible to read the civ2 save game data so that you wouldn't have to input any terrain data. It'd make planning colony sites really easy too if you'd be able to input coordinates and then it'd tell you the s/d lists.

On another note

When I was playing around with the calc, I saw that my cities were frequently uranium suppliers even though I hadn't checked the box for the tech Nuclear Fission.

And another suggestion, I think it'd be a nice feature if you highlighted in another color the city improvements you typically get in a SSC(market, cathedral from mikes, bank, aqueduct etc).

One more suggestion is that you could trim down the list of countries to only the Chinese, French, and the other ones who affect supply and demand.

[StuporMan]

Ell_man,

Good catch on the Uranium in supply without fission. I will try and create a small revision change today to fix that issue.

As to your suggestions:
1. Template Creation:
This is a very good idea! Some preset conditions on the non-terrain aspects of the city could be created and added in some way. I could also allow you to create a sort of template file format so you could create your own templates.

Another option might be to make checking on the techs in the list automatically check all of its prerequisites. Thus making all you would have to do is set the size and improvements.

I am a bit confused as to what WLTXD has to do with supply and demand. AFAIK the number of happy citizens and trade arrows has no effect on supply or demand.

Also, maximal city growth is a relative concept, it varies from city to city and is based on factors beyond the scope of this calculator like irrigated squares, farmland, airbases, and supermarkets. I could calculate maximal irrigated growth and maximal supermarket growth in some way I suppose.

Of all these options I am leaning towards either autochecking prereq techs and template files the most. I will have to ponder this one for a while.

2. Reading terrain data directly from the save file:

Ideally I would love to be able to read all the data for the calculator directly from the save file or from the computer memory. However, there are a few issues that come with such a method.

First off, I would have to learn how to grab this information from the file/memory which is no small task, even with much of this already being documented.

Second, unless I can find out the squares the player has discovered legally, I would have a BIG problem allowing you the ability to simply enter coordinates and generate all of the terrain information from the save file. This could lead to using my calculator to reveal the map without exploring. I am STRONGLY opposed to allowing this to happen as this is a very blatant way to cheat.

3. Highlighting SSC improvements:

This is another very good suggestion, and one that should not take very long to implement. The question lies in what are the standard SSC improvements. Different EL and OCC strategies exist and they vary wildly. Some get Pyramids and Mikes and go for a ICS strategy with a SSC. Others go for a more streamlined approach and will not get either of these wonders and have no cathedrals or granaries. I will go ahead and highlight all the ones I can conceive of someone using in a SSC.

4. Limit the list of Civs to the ones that affect Supply and Demand:

Well, this would certainly be a simple fix. It would also make the current version of the calculator much easier to use. BUT, the next iteration of the calculator I expect to add a nifty new feature in which you can track cities from ALL civilizations using the same calculator. In this way you can go to each city by selecting it from a drop down menu. It would also allow you to enter all the tech information for a civilization one time and then it would be stored for all of its cities.

This part of the project is still in the design phase and still has some issues to work through (like city capture), but this is the major feature I want to implement before releasing version 1.0.

Thanks for your very thorough input. I greatly appreciate your help in making this a better tool.

edit: I added suggestions 1 - 3 to the list of future features.

StuporMan

[Ell_man]

am a bit confused as to what WLTXD has to do with supply and demand. AFAIK the number of happy citizens and trade arrows has no effect on supply or demand.

I was trying to identify certain "thresholds" where supply and demand lists will change and then remain relatively constant for the near future. For example, someone might want to go for early growth but they'll be stopped from growning at population 8 or 12 because they don't have the required techs.

I was assuming the templates would be made for these "thresholds". I was using the WLTXD to show the time period various templates should be trying to represent. The templates would show what the "average" city would have at that time in the future.

This is another very good suggestion, and one that should not take very long to implement. The question lies in what are the standard SSC improvements. Different EL and OCC strategies exist and they vary wildly. Some get Pyramids and Mikes and go for a ICS strategy with a SSC. Others go for a more streamlined approach and will not get either of these wonders and have no cathedrals or granaries. I will go ahead and highlight all the ones I can conceive of someone using in a SSC.

Hmm, this seems like it might be more trouble than I thought it would be. I didn't thnk about OCC players getting +production improvements. Now I think there's too many possibilities and highlighting certain ones wouldn't be an effective use of time. I don't think it'd be too hard just to check a few boxes anyway now.

Oh and another thing, could you have a box that puts the copper/dye bug into effect. This wouldn't be too hard to implement. I think it'd be a good idea to put copper and dye's non-buggy demand values in parentheses when this feature is implemented.

Another feature that I'd like is showing the dates for the Sixteen Turn City Cycles for Deity level.

[StuporMan]

Ell_man,

Thanks for the clarification on what you meant by WLTXD. I had assumed you meant something like this, but wanted to make sure I understood correctly.

As to the Copper/Dye bug, I had thought about adding this to the calculator. However, I have not been able to find the formula to calculate the copper/dye bug. If anyone knows how to calculate the values for Copper and Dye when the bug is in effect and will be willing to give me the formula I will add it to the calculator.

Showing the Solo cycle dates for the city is a great idea. I had thought about this earlier while playing OCC 2005 game 2, but had forgotten to add it to my list.

Thanks again for your suggestions,

StuporMan

[solo]

Samson was never able to determine the values for copper and dye when the bug was in effect. He was deriving his formulas from relative values and these two were "off the charts", so to speak. Just be assured that they outrank other commodities by a good bit, and if I recall correctly, copper outranks dye.

[StuporMan]

I thought that it was a progression from Dye to Copper over time and that Copper and Dye usually, but not ALWAYS outranked the others. If Copper and Dye ALWAYS outrank the others then this would not be useful information for the calculator (as it could always be assumed that these are the top 2 commodities). If not, I will need more information to determine what cases Dye and Copper to not appear at the top of the list.

It is looking more like the Copper/Dye bug will not make it to the calculator.

StuporMan

[solo]

Yes, you're right. The dye bug appears early, and later on, when cities grow copper starts taking over the bugging duties.

I think it's best not to try and include the bug in calculations, since we know that dye or copper will be in the first demand slot after each cycle turn in 2.42 (or after a delivery or city look in MGE). In 2.42, what we want to know is how the list will look after a delivery to an AI city, and this is what your calulator does for us now.

Adding cycle turn lists to the calculator would be a very useful improvement.

In my EL games, I always maintain the complete chronological list of cities by hand, putting sixteen in each column. Next to these I write in columns of game years that correspond to the city cycle turns. It would be nice to automate this in a separate calculator into which we could feed (and update) the list of cities. When the player picks a game date, the calulator could display the cities having an automatic update on that turn.

[Ell_man]

RE copper dye bug

How I envisoned the copper/dye bug was that you'd have a button to turn it on or off. It'd be off by default. You'd have 2 buttons, one for the dye bug, and then one for the copper bug. It's entirely the job of the user to determine when the bug is in effect but the effects of the bug will be shown by the program. It's not too hard to see the effects without the program but I think it'd be a nice touch to save a little bit of time, especially when copper and/or dye switches from supply to demand. That can get confusing at times.


On calculating what the value is for copper/dye. I always assumed it pushed both those to the top of the list. Maybe uranium would be higher later in the game. I bet you could just have the bug push coppper and/or dye to the top of the list and forget about it until someone proves how you can calculate it.

[StuporMan]

RE RE Copper Dye Bug ,

I have not removed this from the list above just yet. It is still in consideration for a feature. The buttons you speak of are about the only way I could implement such a thing. This feature, however, will likely be one of the very LAST ones I add. While this would be a very simple fix, it is also very simple to figure out what the Copper/Dye bug will do to your commodities. Let me give a brief example to demonstrate.

Let us say you have a city with the following lists:
Supply: Wine, Dye, Copper
Demand: Gold, Silk, Silver

Now let us assume the next turn is its Solo-Cycle. After this turn, the Copper/Dye bug changes the lists to read:

Supply: Wine, Coal, Wool
Demand: Copper, Dye, Gold

Let us see what has happened. Since the Copper/Dye bug increased the demand for both Copper and Dye above the supply value, it now cannot appear on the Supply list. Therefore the next two commodities are bumped up, in this case Coal and Wool. As for Demand, the top commodity is moved down to the third position as Copper and Dye are now the top two commodities in demand.

Note: You will still have to deal with wildcard values as normal, but this should not be difficult as I give you the Wildcard values.

Hopefully that will give you enough information to do this on your own, until I can get around to adding the Copper/Dye buttons.

StuporMan

[StuporMan]

Version 1.0 Released!!!!

I am happy to announce that version 1.01 of StuporMan's Supply and Demand calculator is now ready for use!

Edit: Version 1.012 is now located at the top of the thread for your convenience. Version 0.91 is now located here for those that prefer to only track one city.


New Features:
1) You can now track up to 255 cities using the calculator!
2) You can now track every civ in the calculator.
3) Cities can be given names.

Interface Changes:
1) Add city button now used to track a new city.
2) Changing the selection in the Civ drop down will change all civ related items on the calculator (IE. all techs you previously recorded for that civ will be checked and the tech count will also be updated)
3) Changing the City Name drop down selection will update all City related data. (Terrain, Improvements, Location, Owner Civ, etc.)
4) As a result of tracking more information, the old save files will not work with version 1.0 up. I may add this feature later if many people request it.
*******************
NEW IN 1.01 - as requested by solo
*******************
5) Can tab between different items.
6) Selecting a number box will highlight the previous value, for easier manual entry.
7) Remove city button added.
8) Add City button removed. Now to add a city simply type its name into the name field and hit Enter, Tab, or click on another part of the calculator.
9) Default file name for save files is now the name of the first city you entered.
10) On loading a file, if a city has the same name as the filename, then that city will be selected by default.
11) Most actions taken in the calculator will automatically recalculate the Supply and Demand commodities. You should no longer have to click on the Calculate button (but I left it there just in case).
*******************
NEW IN 1.011
*******************
Fixed bug where deleting the last city in a list would cause the program to crash.

I am attaching it here for the time being for three reasons:

1) The new version has some MAJOR changes in it and while I have tested this application, I may have missed something, so I want a stable version still available for use.

2) Old save files currently DO NOT work with the new calculator.

3) This allows me to move the older version here for archival purposes. (someone may like the old version better for some odd reason)

Let me know what you think!

Thanks,
StuporMan

Version (1.0) was downloaded 5 times.
Version (1.01) was downloaded 1 time.
Version (1.011) was downloaded 1 time.

[StuporMan]

Sign up for the PM list, and status of future development.

Hello All,

I must say that I am very pleased with how far the Supply and Demand Calculator has come. Version 1.0 accomplishes everything I set out to do in the beginning, and it has been completed much sooner than I anticipated. I owe this mostly to solo who helped immensely in tracking down errors and helping me to understand the formulas. I have also added an acknowledgements section to thank all those responsible for helping me complete the calculator.

Now I am not done developing the calculator by any means, but I am now going to work on the extra features you have suggested to bring this calculator from 1.0 to 2.0. At this stage, however, I think I will move new development to another thread. Should there be errors to correct in 1.0, they will still be posted here as well, but I want to move the new features to a new thread. Due to the nature of the new goals for the calculator and the status of my life in general, this means I will not be posting new releases quite as often I as have before. As a result, I am starting a PM list for those that want to recieve information about the weekly status and new updates for the calculator. If you want to sign up for these lists, simply PM me with your name and either Status or New Releases to indicate whether or not you want to receive status updates (which include new releases) or if you only want to receive a PM when I release a new version.

I will not be abandoning these forums by any means, but this is just to keep you more informed of my progress.

Thank you all,
StuporMan

[solo]

Sounds good. Please notify me of any changes and updates.

I would like permission to post a copy of your calculator in my EL Guide thread, so that its readers there have easy access to it.

I also believed this thread should be linked to ST's Great Library.