Are Spies Overpowered?!

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by atomant
I prefer to stop the spies from getting near my cities. I prefer to use a spare bomber or two and kill/expel, before getting close. (interestingly I usually discover advanced flight before esp.)

Nowadays, I typically fortify my borders with other nations and/or build forts in the cardinal directions of my cities. That's usually effective in keeping spies out, as I changed it so they had to obey ZOC. The only "bad" side effect to that is if they're just outside your territory, stuck at your fort, you can' expel them w/o starting a war. And when you don't expel them, they sit there, and the AI gradually gets ticked off to the point where it typically attacks. Sometimes that's OK, particularly if one has a few dozen (or more) howies, bombers, fighters and armored divisions built up. You can kill the AI's spies and take its cities. Heh. Kill two birds with one stone.

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[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Old n Slow
What problem with spies? Aren't you defending with trucks? If you're 20 techs ahead, so what if they get one or two?

Because, more often than not, it's your most advanced techs the AI conveniently steals. I resent it when an AI civ that's just discovered industrialization can come in and steal robotics, and be spitting out howies the same turn. But the biggest issue of all is pride — I *earned* my techs and great, sprawling civ and, as such, seeing the AI get away with murder is annoying beyond all belief. Yes, yes, it's just a simplistic, mid-1990s program. But STILL ... pride, man, pride.

If, on the other hand, you're playing a "slow" game to allow the ai to get modern techs and make the challenge interesting, again so what? Isn't it interesting to have an ai just that bit more advanced? Not to mention the opportunity for some justification for a visit....in force.

Again, pride. And, yes, I've crushed an entire AI civilization in one fell swoop on occasion when it was dumb enough to steal a tech and was linked to my civilization via rail lines. (Or roads ... in which case I simply have a reservoir of engineers waiting to convert key roads to rails.)

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[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Heresson
Well, I'm usually behind in technology, spending all my efforts to expand, expand, expand (I'm always playing on 100x100 maps, and there are just too many grassland fields to expand to for me to resist),
so it's usually me who's stealing techs and becoming a space exploration overnight, much to the AI's dismay.
For me, the problem does not exist
You have to be a good player to experience it.


And if I'm playing Mongol Horde-styled game, well, the problem does not exist either.

Heh. The best of both worlds, eh? I generally am the opposite of you — I like being the most advanced on the block, and I "farm" the AI civs so they can present a challenge into the modern era (mainly because ancient warfare is so time-consuming, unless one nips them in the bud right away around 4000 BC ... nothing like waltzing into an AI capital in 3000 BC and, voila!, that's that for that particular AI civ ... hmm .... I should do it more often, especially when playing in Europe).

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[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by biru biru
I find that spies are one of the most powerful units in the game as well, it's why I make so many of them myself.

In most diety games, the majority of total science research is done for me by ai civs. I reserve setting the tax rate to favor science for those few choice tech races, and usually rely on my diplomats and spies for the basics.

I suppose that spies could have their abilities limited though to reduce their potency.

Perhaps I should try that style of game. Heh. Advance enough to acquire espionage, then focus on building spies and pair them with freight trucks.

I'm set in my ways, though ... But who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? Oh, right. The old dog.

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[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
I find Spies useful and they probably are overpowered, when you consider all the functions they have. However, I don't find myself using them all that often. That's probably due to being fairly far ahead, techwise... and not needing to poison/nuke AI cities. Certainly the bribe function is useful, but it gets expensive.

It's about the same here — I station spies in my cities mainly to ward off AI espionage attempts (but it doesn't work all the time, even with vets). I usually avoid nuking AI assets, as I apply real-world sensibilities to my games (sometimes to my own detriment), although the occasional well-poisoning isn't out of the question.

Regarding bribes, I've had some AI cities demand 20,000 gold to flip to my side. Unless you want an international incident, that pretty much makes them unbribeable. Unless you poison them down to size, then bribe 'em!

AI Spies would be a lot nastier if the AI wasn't so predictable.

I've seen AI spies poison cities, steal technology, destroy improvements and flip cities, but *never* plant nukes.

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