How to calculate defense values?

[C-F-G]

Veteran Phalanx fortified at hill in town - how much defense is it?

2*1,5*1,5*2 = 9 or 2*3 = 6 or...?

[Theben]

Unless someone has noted differently in the last 3 years- which is entirely possible- it's all multiplied one after the other.

[Theben]

So the 1st one.

[C-F-G]

So it's nothing special to lose a vet catapult, thx

[La Fayette]

Details here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22856

[Peaster]

Theben's answer agrees with a statement in the combat formula thread, that percentages are multiplied together... not added. I just did a ltitle testing and confirmed that CFG's phalanx (9) survives almost every time against a non-vet catapult (6).

I still wonder if this is correct For example, if CFG's phalanx is behind walls (x3) and on a river (x1.5) then it has a defense factor of 40, which makes it almost immortal. Does this seem correct?

Also, from the combat thread - what are these 2 variables ? Is "d" the number that CGF asked about?

"a = the attacker's modified attack factor, and
d = the defender's modified defense factor"

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BTW - Civ2 percentages are often added and not multiplied (for example, the effect of libraries and universities, etc on beakers). To me, this is usually not clear from the civilopaedia.

[La Fayette]

Peaster,

I would say "yes, CGF is asking about d = modified defence factor".
As to your chosen example (rivered hill + city walls), I would say d = 27 (because walls give you x3, but you lose the x1.5 for fortified unit).
This means that you need really strong units to get rid that kind of devils (any experienced player has shouted @à"# words when painfully discovering that kind of truth ).

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by La Fayette
This means that you need really strong units to get rid that kind of devils

Or a diplomat. Unless, of course, the AI sneak attacks you

[DaveV]

Originally posted by La Fayette
This means that you need really strong units to get rid that kind of devils

... or a large number of moderately strong units. My off-the-cuff estimating scheme says you'd need 5-6 vet catapults to take out the phalanx in the example (vet cat attack = 9, so the phalanx's bonus = 27-9 = 18. Effective defense = 27+18 = 45).

Or, as SG2 would have said, send in a vet ironclad. No city wall bonus, defense drops to 13.5. Ironclad's attack is 6, defense bonus is 7.5, effective defense is 21. Since the ironclad has 30 HP, it should be able to knock the phalanx down to 1 or 2 HP.

[Scouse Gits]

Vive the Super 'Clad

Stu

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by DaveV

Since the ironclad has 30 HP, it should be able to knock the phalanx down to 1 or 2 HP.

How do you estimate that ?

[DaveV]

I calculate the unit strength by HP times adjusted attack or defense, which yields 180 for the ironclad and 210 for the phalanx. On average, the ironclad should be able to remove 180/210 of the phalanx's strength, or 8.57 HP. This is, of course, an approximation, and one that favors the attacker slightly.

[La Fayette]

Thank you.
I usually try to attack with overwhelming strength, which makes that kind of calculations less useful, but you are perfectly right: being able to estimate how much damage a weaker unit will be able to inflict on the strong defender can be vital.

[La Fayette]

I find it lovely to define a super ironclad as a "weaker unit"

[La Fayette]

and FP ?

BTW dave, what about FP ?
I use it as a multiplier to estimate the modified attack or defence value, when FP>1.
Is that OK ?