A War to end all Wars

[jim panse]

Originally posted by Exile
I've found some things that are curious, so I'll point them up here. Some may be problems, some may not.

1.) Ammunition plants are Hydro plants. Were you aware that cities that do not have either a river or mountain square adjacent won't be able to build them? You can correct this with CivCity, though it'll take a little while to convert every city to "can build hydro."

Pollution added in an 'Anti-war riots' sense

2.) You might consider taking away Malta's coastal status with CivCity. As things are, it'll grow to absurd population levels very rapidly.

Done

3.) If there is no pollution in the scenario, why build a Forces Mail Service?

See point 1.)

4.) Stock exchanges; An actual stock exchange isn't something that can be built during a war. Consider naming this improvement something else.

Stock Exchanges renamed to 'Victory Bonds'.

5.) The Ballistics Centre wonder. Is it already built somewhere? The Wonder list in the scenario doesn't show that it is, and yet I can't build it, even though I have the correct tech.

I looked again after it. Should be working though ...

6.) Mass War Production versus Ammunition Plant. Once again, if there's no pollution, having both of these in the scenario seems redundant. Is there another reason for doing so?

See points 1.) and 3.)

7.) The London City wonder. Is it supposed to be obsolete and non-functional at the beginning of the game?

Should be working now

8.) The Krupp wonder is also obsolete at the outset. Is this correct?

See point 7.)

9.) Why do the mines move? (lol) Is there some other way you can represent mines, minelaying, and minesweeping?

Fixed also that

Again, thank you again for the feedback. Yours has been more than constructive, Phenix!

NEW VERSION AVAILABLE!

Follow this here LINK

[Exile]

True confessions . . . . .

Ok, I've been considering making a WWI scenario myself for quite some time, but, after seeing yours, Stephan, I've decided not to do so. The situation is very much like putting together a good American Civil war scenario; after seeing Nemo's, why bother? Yours is simply too good to top, even in its beta stages. I honestly don't think that any effort on my part could improve on this scenario.

What took you so long?

After playing this one extensively for a few days, I've decided that the Cavalry is good. It's ability to "see 2" is reason enough to keep and use 'em. And, once again, more kudos on this map. By itself, this is a worthwhile accomplishment. The more I play on it, the more it seems like a map that can be used for other scenario situations that center on Europe and the Mediterranean. Did you make it? Will you make maps for me?

I'm an impatient man, so I've already made some adjustments on my copy. Largely, however, the changes I've made are things that you're going to change. Took away the mines movement, removed the obsolete status of the two wonders mentioned, and changed several of the ship graphics so that I could tell 'em apart.

Importantly for a WWI scenario, I have a good graphic to use as trenches terrain, though I can't recall where it came from. I've already instituted it in my copy, and if you'd like to see it, I'll be happy to send it along for you to examine. The trick here is that I had wrestled with how to use this combination of trenches graphic/terrain/unit capabilities, but had not been able to come up with a satisfactory solution. You solved the same problem I had posed for myself except for having a good graphic for the trenches. I've mused often about how it would appear in a scenario. After inserting the graphic into yours, I wasn't disappointed.

Ok, about the pollution; Stephan, no player is going to build an improvement unless it serves some actual game purpose. While the scenario contains the "no pollution" flag, no one is going to build pollution-reducing improvements. It's certainly a nice touch and captures the spirit of a WWI game, but it remains superfluous. Is there something that I'm missing here? Are you including this purely as an atmospheric feature?

Um, I've already made a sound file. But I do look forward to seeing your interpretation--mine is just a stopgap measure until the authorized version appears.

What are the new numbers for the artillery?

About the Greeks; My copy of A Short History of World War I by James L. Stokesbury states that the Greek situation was complex. While the monarch of that young state was a relative of the Kaiser, he was also a relative of most of the other major crowned heads of Europe. The monarch WAS pro-German, but the Prime minister was pro-entente, and all of them cordially hated the Turks, and this last factor was decisive. As long as the Turks were allied w/Germany, it was VERY unlikely that the Greeks would have committed their armed forces on the side of the central powers.

My sources indicate that the German troops using the Hutier tactics of infiltration were called "Stosstruppen," but then, my command of German is sketchy nowadays, at best. This is a trivial issue though.

Ok, now for the naval critique; The numbers for the units and the strength totals seem accurate, BUT;

The Armored cruiser and Light cruiser were DEFINITELY different ships. Google "World War One Naval combat" and take a look at Darren Milford's site. Lists of tonnages for ships are available there and even more detailed lists are available on linked sites. Light cruisers are small ships, for the most part simply very large destroyers. Very often, these ships were used as leaders of destroyer squadrons. Armored cruisers were much larger, heavily armored, and considerably better armed than lights, and were of a similar size to capital ships. Developments in propulsion technology (the steam turbine engine) made these ships obsolete by the outset of war, though no one was sure of that at the time. Here is the trick; Battlecruisers are FASTER than Armored cruisers. This fact is what made them obsolete. Superdreadnoughts were, at this time, characterized by very large guns (13.5 inch or better, and most carried at least 15 inchers), but also better speed. Oil-fired engines were just beginning to come into use. I really do sympathize with your statement about the AI throwing its ships pointlessly against port cites. That is a problem, I've encountered it myself, but I can't think of anything that could ameliorate this difficulty, other than to eliminate the subs and give all ships the sub flag. This is, however, quite a radical step, and I don't advise it at this stage of scenario development. I merely point it out. The only justification for this would be the idea that submarine warfare was not a military weapon primarily, but instead an economic weapon, and, as such, might be better represented in another way. I dealt with it in AoW by giving Britain the Adam Smith wonder, then obsoleting it when Germany received the "Submarine warfare" tech. This effectively simulated the effects of the submarine campaign and had the beneficial effect of clearing unit slots AND the making the "sub flag" available to ships so that they wouldn't suicidally attempt to bombard random hostile ports.

Btw, I am really enjoying this scenario.

[Sarsstock]

My god exile, you truley deserve the title.... "King of playtesting".

I too like the map, to my knowledge Steph did make it himself. I was privilaged enough to be given previews of it at different stages of development, and I knew right off the bat it was a map that though might seem hard to use at first, would eventually embraced in little time.

My question for Steph is whether or not you will use this infantry style as your prefered style from now on? Its a great style and I can really see it fitting into future WW2, WW3 scenarios. I can even see it fitting into Civil War or Hundred Year' War scenarios.

[Exile]

Absent-minded oversight . . . .

Well, Sars, when I see a scenario that I really like, why not provide information and feedback to the author?

Ok, IIRC, it seems that, if you assign scoring by objectives within a scenario, it disables the building of new wonders. Can anyone verify that? Seems like I heard that coulple of years ago from Patient English. This would explain why, even though I have the tech, I can't build the wonder.

[Harry Tuttle]

Oh WOW, that IS a really nice map! Damn! Nice job!

[curtsibling]

@Exile:

Yes the issue with objectives and wonders is correct.

It is an old curse of CIV2...

I see no reason for it, however...
It would be nice to have a city that suddenly 'becomes' a target, due to a new wonder.

[jim panse]

@ Exile: This is getting even better! You are very much helping me!

About the UNITS that you mentioned: I could possibly get rid of one, maybe more of the minor nation infantry units and include a Lt Cruiser. Could you possibly post the units you fixed? I´d appreciate seeing them. Same goes for the terrains!

Originally posted by Exile
What took you so long?

I have been to Barcelona last weekend so I was not at home for fixing that. And you also put up a long list with things to fix

I will keep up fixing those issues you mentioned when I am less hung-over

Btw, could anyone do me a favour? I´d like to see the Russians attacking Germany. You may find a nasty surprise ...

[Exile]

The ships graphics that I used were all fairline units and can be found in the AoI units bmp file. The Armored cruiser and dreadnought there are perfect, and there is a graphic of the British battlecruiser HMS Invincible at the bottom of the file. You've modified and used the Light cruiser graphic for your Blockade Runner unit, so I would see if fairline might be bribed/cajoled/talked into putting together another graphic for that. Ask him to use the HMS Pegasus as a model. There is a photo on the Milford site.

I'll be happy to send you the Trenches terrain I used. Send me your email in a PM here and I'll get it to you quickly.

Playing on the Prince level, and as the German Empire, I was able to take the role of the younger Moltke. Unlike him, I kept my right wing strong and refused to siphon off divisions to either Prince Ruprect in Lorraine or to von Prittwitz in East Prussia. Those gentlemen were ordered to hold until relieved. The result; von Kluck was able to make good progress across northern France, defeat the French forces there (although with very heavy losses), and occupy Paris by January 1915. It was a very close-run campaign however. The assault on the enemy capital was the last effort of the German armies in the west. Very accurate simulation.

[curtsibling]

Without a doubt WW1 was the most important war of the 20th century, for it's long-reaching effects.

A good scenario, Jim!
Could use more planes, though!

PS
Imagine a ToT version!
The events can be used for great effects in a WW1 scenario!

[Catfish]

Originally posted by Exile
Ok, IIRC, it seems that, if you assign scoring by objectives within a scenario, it disables the building of new wonders. Can anyone verify that?

It's only the case if you count wonders as objectives as well.

[jim panse]

Say, Phenix, first thank you for those trenches!

Could you get me those ships you were talking about too?

I´d be eternal grateful

[curtsibling]

I'll get some enhanced terrain to you: today or early tomorrow, JP!

[jim panse]

That would be awesome, CS You know my eMail, just send them over when you´re ready

[curtsibling]

Will do - Have to do some other university work first...

[Exile]

WWI Ships

These are, in order, Armored cruiser, Dreadnought, and Battlecruiser. These are all also fairline's work.