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**Eivind IV** · July 29, 2004, 17:45

Title by Saarstock!

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**Eivind IV** · July 29, 2004, 17:46

Units by Fairline!

Attached Files

**curtsibling** · July 30, 2004, 03:42

Downloading now!

**Harry Tuttle** · July 30, 2004, 09:34

News item posted, Downloading tonight.

**Exile** · July 30, 2004, 23:35

I tried to look at the readme file, but it errors out on me everytime I do so.

Got one that works?

**Exile** · July 31, 2004, 01:07

Some observations.

Perhaps when I am able to peruse the readme file, some of the things I've spotted will be explained. Until then, I've some observations to list.

The TECH TREE;

Some very good ideas here; telephones, antibiotics, the various military doctrines, the wireless, all good considering the period you've chosen. The icons are very nice and I might use some of them myself to update AoI. However, there are some mysteries here. Why research Ignition system at all? Is it a tech that has hidden advantages? I'm having difficulty understanding why theory of relativity was placed as a preq to gunpowder. Shouldn't Gas Masks be called "chemical warfare" or something similar? Is it really possible to gain Dreadnought tech without first acquiring modern battleships? Social Darwinism has Motion pictures and Vacuum Cleaner (!) as preqs? I'm not sure what you were thinking on this assignment, but Social Darwinist thought goes back to the 1860s, even in America. The Escalator has Machine Guns as a preq? Color Photography has Insulin and State Subsidies as preqs? Shouldn't Aerodynamics come before Biplanes? Why is Colour Photography a preq for Diesel-feuled engines? Why is the Superheterodyne circuit a preq for Conscription? Napoleon came up with the idea of conscription, last time I looked. While it's certainly true that many of the inventions that appear as techs in your tree appeared during the period in question, their inclusion in a tree is both mysterious and at least a little humorous, but don't take that criticism harshly--I'm really trying to be nice here. Seriously. I am amazed that such devices as Bottle making machinery, the electric shaver, Mechanical television, Neon light, the Typewriter, the Vacuum cleaner, and (especially) Windscreen wipers (!) appear in your tree. Ok, I can't help laughing about the windscreen wipers, I'm sorry. Is there something I'm missing here? What is most mysterious is the places that these devices take up in the tree.

The GOVERNMENTS;

Nicely done. Makes sense.

The TERRAIN & CITIES;

Your choices ought to thrill the WWII buffs--they really like the isometric stuff. Some good ideas here on special terrains, mines, and farms. It's about time that someone decided to expand along these lines.

The IMPROVEMENTS;

Good choices and good icons. Unless I'm seeing things, the Fortifications and Oil Raffineries [sic] are my own modifications, the former a mod of a Nemo, but the latter was my own creation entirely, taken from a photo of an oil field in Pennsylvania, reduced, touched up, and colored. I hope you credited me. I particularly liked the Stock Exchange icon--much better than the default icon.

The WONDERS;

Um, there are a HOST of familiar ideas here. Once again, I'm going to wait until I get a functional copy of the readme file before further comment. But what is the "Japanese Somthing?" (!) I wonder if it's going to wind up as the Meiji Restoration.

The UNITS;

Well, once again, there are a number of familiar faces in this crowd, but these are Gareth's, so he calls the shots on this. There were no Heavy cruisers during this period. There were Armored cruisers and the two types are distinctly different. Did you intend for these units to be Armored cruisers? The inclusion of the Foreign Legion was a very nice touch. Wish I had had the space to do that myself in AoI. About the ANZACS unit; are you by chance an Aussie or NZer? Just curious.

Overall, the scenario looks like you've worked very hard on it. Nice graphics all over the place. On the opening turns, the French immediately attack Belgium. Is this what you intended? The British immediately declared war on the Turks too. The Russians sailed their Black Sea fleet right past Istanbul on the first turn. It's difficult to point these things out as problems, because I KNOW how frustrating the AI can be regarding these little diplomatic niceties, but the assignment of very many of your cities as neutrals is problematic--the powers, if run by AI, will tend to attack them right off the mark. My only suggestion here is to try to think in terms of economic/diplomatic blocs, rather than actual national territory. It's a compromise solution, but possibly more accurate than first turn bombardment of cities in the low countries. These problems can be addressed, if not solved, by manipulation of starting diplomatic relationships in the cheat menu. Should there really be a northwest passage on the map? Icebreaking vessels didn't appear until after the 2nd world war. The coastal areas of west Africa really need to be re-thought. The areas that you've created as desert (the gold, slave, and ivory coasts) should be jungle, or at least forest, and the far west coast of Africa should be desert instead of forest. Take a look at satellite photos of that area--it's almost totally devoid of vegetation of any kind. Shouldn't Panama be a canal? Or is the American player required to dig one? Portland really should be where Seattle is located. The city of Seattle didn't take off until WWII, thanks to the shipbuilding and arms industries that were located there. And Jackson?!?! I've been through Jackson. It's a rundown slum and it's always been a rundown slum. Consider Minneapolis or St. Louis or Omaha or Lincoln or Kansas City instead. Just anyplace but Jackson! Wasn't Cypress controlled by the British during this period? Antanarivo shouldn't be a port. Is it? On the first turn, a warship attacked Roma from the eastern side. Did you intend for this to occur? If the Italians are neutrals/barbarians, how will they be induced to enter WWI on the side of the allies? I really like your People icons--very colorful and quite apt. The trade items also look very familiar.

I really want to see the readme file.

[Does this count as a review, lol]

Not that it matters, Eivind, but my INITIAL judgement on this one is; nice work, but needs (some) work still.

**Valuk** · July 31, 2004, 07:17

I think that Italy would be a better[and more realistic] choice instead of the Ottomans.

**Eivind IV** · July 31, 2004, 13:24

Re: Some observations.

You raise many issues here, Exile, leaving me no choice but to retouch the damn thing

Originally posted by Exile
Perhaps when I am able to peruse the readme file, some of the things I've spotted will be explained. Until then, I've some observations to list.

The TECH TREE;

Some very good ideas here; telephones, antibiotics, the various military doctrines, the wireless, all good considering the period you've chosen. The icons are very nice and I might use some of them myself to update AoI. However, there are some mysteries here. Why research Ignition system at all? Is it a tech that has hidden advantages? I'm having difficulty understanding why theory of relativity was placed as a preq to gunpowder. Shouldn't Gas Masks be called "chemical warfare" or something similar? Is it really possible to gain Dreadnought tech without first acquiring modern battleships? Social Darwinism has Motion pictures and Vacuum Cleaner (!) as preqs? I'm not sure what you were thinking on this assignment, but Social Darwinist thought goes back to the 1860s, even in America. The Escalator has Machine Guns as a preq? Color Photography has Insulin and State Subsidies as preqs? Shouldn't Aerodynamics come before Biplanes? Why is Colour Photography a preq for Diesel-feuled engines? Why is the Superheterodyne circuit a preq for Conscription? Napoleon came up with the idea of conscription, last time I looked.

Ah, seems I have to go back to the drawing board. You know making tech trees can make the most genious of man go crazy

Very frustrating business...

While it's certainly true that many of the inventions that appear as techs in your tree appeared during the period in question, their inclusion in a tree is both mysterious and at least a little humorous, but don't take that criticism harshly--I'm really trying to be nice here. Seriously. I am amazed that such devices as Bottle making machinery, the electric shaver, Mechanical television, Neon light, the Typewriter, the Vacuum cleaner, and (especially) Windscreen wipers (!) appear in your tree. Ok, I can't help laughing about the windscreen wipers, I'm sorry. Is there something I'm missing here? What is most mysterious is the places that these devices take up in the tree.

These were all revolutionary inventions, damnit

Can you imagine a world without them the day today?

The GOVERNMENTS;

Nicely done. Makes sense.

Thank you!

The TERRAIN & CITIES;

Your choices ought to thrill the WWII buffs--they really like the isometric stuff. Some good ideas here on special terrains, mines, and farms. It's about time that someone decided to expand along these lines.

Thank you!

The IMPROVEMENTS;

Good choices and good icons. Unless I'm seeing things, the Fortifications and Oil Raffineries [sic] are my own modifications, the former a mod of a Nemo, but the latter was my own creation entirely, taken from a photo of an oil field in Pennsylvania, reduced, touched up, and colored. I hope you credited me. I particularly liked the Stock Exchange icon--much better than the default icon.

And right you are. In the readme, which I will send to you, I have the line "Thank you Exile for inspiration from your fantastic scenario Imperialism 1870!

". I didn't give many specific credits to anyone. I just thanked a bunch of people in general. Since it looks as though I must correct some things you pointed out, I may very well include these specific creds if you like

The WONDERS;

Um, there are a HOST of familiar ideas here. Once again, I'm going to wait until I get a functional copy of the readme file before further comment. But what is the "Japanese Somthing?" (!) I wonder if it's going to wind up as the Meiji Restoration.

What I said above.

Regarding the Japanese Something all I can say is nicely spotted. I didn't see that one.

The UNITS;

Well, once again, there are a number of familiar faces in this crowd, but these are Gareth's, so he calls the shots on this. There were no Heavy cruisers during this period. There were Armored cruisers and the two types are distinctly different. Did you intend for these units to be Armored cruisers? The inclusion of the Foreign Legion was a very nice touch. Wish I had had the space to do that myself in AoI.

Yes, they should be armoured cruisers. Will be corrected as well.

About the ANZACS unit; are you by chance an Aussie or NZer? Just curious.

Nope, I'm Norwegian

Overall, the scenario looks like you've worked very hard on it. Nice graphics all over the place.

You bet I did!

On the opening turns, the French immediately attack Belgium. Is this what you intended? The British immediately declared war on the Turks too. The Russians sailed their Black Sea fleet right past Istanbul on the first turn. It's difficult to point these things out as problems, because I KNOW how frustrating the AI can be regarding these little diplomatic niceties, but the assignment of very many of your cities as neutrals is problematic--the powers, if run by AI, will tend to attack them right off the mark. My only suggestion here is to try to think in terms of economic/diplomatic blocs, rather than actual national territory. It's a compromise solution, but possibly more accurate than first turn bombardment of cities in the low countries. These problems can be addressed, if not solved, by manipulation of starting diplomatic relationships in the cheat menu.

I'm aware of these things, and yes, they do annoy me. That's why this scenario is, as it says in the readme you don't have

, optimized for PBEM play

. I'm thinking of maybe leaving out the ottomans and creating a Independents civ or something. But I'm open to suggestions regarding the diplomatic and economic blocs.

Should there really be a northwest passage on the map? Icebreaking vessels didn't appear until after the 2nd world war.

The readme says: "• No ships are allowed in any Pacific port from Vladivostock and further north due to the Ice blocking these ports between October and March. This makes Port Arthur the only port for the Russians during those moths."

The coastal areas of west Africa really need to be re-thought. The areas that you've created as desert (the gold, slave, and ivory coasts) should be jungle, or at least forest, and the far west coast of Africa should be desert instead of forest. Take a look at satellite photos of that area--it's almost totally devoid of vegetation of any kind.

Will do, sir!

Shouldn't Panama be a canal? Or is the American player required to dig one?

It will come by event historically in 1914.

Portland really should be where Seattle is located. The city of Seattle didn't take off until WWII, thanks to the shipbuilding and arms industries that were located there. And Jackson?!?! I've been through Jackson. It's a rundown slum and it's always been a rundown slum. Consider Minneapolis or St. Louis or Omaha or Lincoln or Kansas City instead. Just anyplace but Jackson! Wasn't Cypress controlled by the British during this period? Antanarivo shouldn't be a port. Is it? On the first turn, a warship attacked Roma from the eastern side. Did you intend for this to occur? If the Italians are neutrals/barbarians, how will they be induced to enter WWI on the side of the allies? I really like your People icons--very colorful and quite apt. The trade items also look very familiar.

Noted!

[Does this count as a review, lol]

I think it does!

You really are thorough, man! Thanks! I really apreciate constructive critisism. And coming from you, my favorite scenario designer this means a lot!

Not that it matters, Eivind, but my INITIAL judgement on this one is; nice work, but needs (some) work still.

I think you are right, Exile! This one will be finished.

**Eivind IV** · July 31, 2004, 13:25

Originally posted by Valuk
I think that Italy would be a better[and more realistic] choice instead of the Ottomans.

I actually had a referendum on this matter before I started making the scen. The Ottomans won, I'm afraid

**Eivind IV** · August 1, 2004, 19:35

Ok, I've been working on this all day. Changed a lot. I even removed the Ottoman civ in favour of an independents civ, so the AI won't screw up that much. My only problem I have now is what to do with Turkey. They can't be in the same civ as Italy, which is in the indpendent civ together with Scandinava, the Low Countries, Spain, South America, Romania etc. Can I put them in Germany's civ, since you Exile mentioned I could use economic blocs. Afterall, the only ally the Turks had was Germany who invested heavily in the Ottoman economy, even helped out to build a railway between Berlin and Baghdad in 1902 and they supported the Ottoman army.

Any thoughts? My concern is that the Prussian Militarism wonder might cause some unbalance...I could give them to the barbarians, but I don't want to do that unless I have to.

Removing Ottoman Turkey also opened 3 unit slot, so feel free to come with suggestions.

**ninurta** · August 3, 2004, 08:45

A very good scenario. I really admire and apperciate the effort put in it. But while you are revamping it already, you could rename some cities in Russia and some other areas. I know you couldn't know every Russian cityname before the revolution, but it would look nice if you would correct this 'bug' along with some of your misstypings.

Krasnodar (is named so since 1920) to Yekaterinodar
'Kharobavsk' to Khabarovsk.
'Bisjek' to Bishkek.
Vitsjebsk to Vitebsk (btw. your 'sj' for 'sh' or 'sz' looks quite creepy)

Kirov (got that name in 1934) to Vyatka, but it is weird to have such a small city on map, why not have Kazan instead? I wonder why you have the small Kineshma on the map. Sacrifice it for Kostroma or Nijni Novgorod?

Why do you have Kyzyl Orda and Dushanbe? They (especially the later) were small villages then. I think it would be better to add Bokhara or Samarkand, even if they were something rather like colonial cities with own emirs.

'Ataku' is correctly spelled as Aktau, but was named Aleksandrovsk then, I think.

Novosibirsk was Novonikolaevsk back then, and is ought to be very small (founded in 1893 as a railroad station, grew in Soviet times) so better replace it with Tomsk.

Kaunas was officially called Kovno by the Russians

Alger was called Algiers by the French

Seoul was not Seoul but Hanyang before 1945.

Why don't you add Okhotsk to the map, as another freezing port (or a city in the South of Sakhalin, to give Japan something more to fight for)? Also, some german Lemberg would look nice.

Did you consider giving Manchuria to Russia at game start? After all, Russians were required to withdraw their troops only, and as they refused, Japan attacked. Dalian was even founded by the Russians in late 19th century (therefore, quite strange to have it).

Edit:
There was already a (even if not fully independent) Bulgaria, therefore Sofia should rather be Neutral.

I share the oppinion that Italy would be the obvious alternative fot Turkey.

**curtsibling** · August 3, 2004, 10:39

I love a scen with tons of invention techs and innovations, that is why I liked Exile's 1870-scen so much!

Kobra, let me have a look at your tech tree if you want, as I can say the
secret of a good tree is using the hidden extras of some techs to your advantage.

The best way to handle tech branches is to categorise:
Put military, invention, social, naval, air, and political techs in seperate areas...

Here is a typical layout system I use for my scens...

MAIN
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Twice Removed, 1, 0, no, no, 0, 0 ; Plu
World War Two, 1, 0, Plu, nil, 0, 0 ; PT

Arms Exports, 0, 0, PT, nil, 0, 0 ; Dem

-----------------------------------------------------------------
BLIGHTY
-----------------------------------------------------------------
British Empire, 0, 0, PT, nil, 0, 0 ; Rep

Bomber Command, 6,-2, Rep, Sth, 3, 2 ; Ast

Commando Operations, 6,-1, Rep, Cmb, 1, 0 ; Ldr
-----------------------------------------------------------------
JAPAN
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Japanese Empire, 0, 0, PT, nil, 2, 4 ; Ind
Looting of China, 4,-1, Ind, nil, 2, 4 ; Gun 35

Pacific War Plan, 8,-2, Gun, Cmb, 2, 4 ; Las

-----------------------------------------------------------------
BADDIES
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Racialism, 5,-2, PT, nil, 2, 1 ; Gen

Slave Labour, 5,-2, Gen, nil, 2, 1 ; CoL

Forced POW Labour, 5,-2, CoL, nil, 2, 1 ; Rfg 70

-----------------------------------------------------------------
GERMANS
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Fascism, 0, 0, PT, nil, 0, 4 ; Mon
Nazism, 0, 0, Mon, nil, 0, 4 ; Fun
Lebensraumpolitik, 0, 0, Fun, nil, 0, 4 ; Phi 60

Blitzkrieg Doctrine, 0, 0, PT, nil, 0, 4 ; Inv

Barbarossa Attack, 7,-2, Inv, Csc, 0, 4 ; Mas

Airborne Blitzkrieg, 7,-2, Inv, Tac, 0, 4 ; CA

Waffen SS Expansion, 7,-2, Inv, Tac, 0, 4 ; Csc

Improved U-Boot, 3,-2, Inv, NP, 1, 3 ; Eng 25

V-Weapons, 6,-2, Inv, Bro, 2, 2 ; Roc
Jet Fighter, 4,-2, Inv, Min, 2, 2 ; SFl
Trans-Atlantic Bomber, 2,-2, Inv, Sth, 3, 2 ; Cmp

-----------------------------------------------------------------
USA
-----------------------------------------------------------------

American Patriotism, 1, 0, PT, nil, 3, 4 ; E2
American War Industry, 1, 0, PT, nil, 3, 4 ; Aut 5

Amphibious Doctrine, 5,-1, Tac, Aut, 1, 0 ; Amp

Lend-Lease Plan, 5,-2, E2, Cor, 3, 3 ; X6
Suppplies To Russia, 5,-2, X6, Cor, 3, 4 ; X7 99

European War Plan, 6,-2, X7, Amp, 3, 4 ; U2

Hollywood War Movies, 2, 0, U2, Eco, 3, 4 ; The

Strategic Bombing, 4,-2, U2, Sth, 3, 2 ; U1 90
Long Range Fighters, 6,-2, U1, nil, 3, 1 ; Exp

European Liberation, 3, 0, U2, Alp, 3, 4 ; U3

-----------------------------------------------------------------
COMMIES
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Communism, 0, 0, PT, nil, 1, 4 ; Cmn
Stalinism, 6,-2, Cmn, nil, 1, 4 ; Feu
Soviet Purge, 6,-2, Feu, nil, 1, 4 ; Mob

Partisan Tactics, 5,-2, Cmn, Tac, 1, 4 ; Lab 40

Guard Regiments, 6,-2, Cmn, Tac, 1, 4 ; Gue

Katyusha Artillery, 7,-2, Cmn, Bro, 1, 4 ; Met

-----------------------------------------------------------------
INDUSTRY
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Industrialisation, 0, 0, PT, nil, 1, 1 ; Bri

Wartime Economy, 4,-1, Bri, nil, 0, 1 ; Eco
Industry War Effort, 4,-1, Eco, nil, 1, 1 ; Cor

Improved Railroad, 0, 4, Cor, Mag, 1, 1 ; RR

Population Relocation, 5,-2, Eco, MT, 2, 1 ; San

Mass Production, 5,-1, Mag, Cor, 1, 1 ; MP
Total War Production, 6, 1, MP, Tac, 1, 1 ; Too

Synthetic Fuel, 4,-1, Too, Che, 1, 1 ; Ref

Western Commerce, 0, 0, PT, nil, 0, 1 ; Tra
Capitalist Banks, 0, 0, PT, nil, 0, 1 ; Ban

-----------------------------------------------------------------
WAR
-----------------------------------------------------------------

City Militias, 3, 0, PT, nil, 0, 0 ; Cst

War Propaganda, 2, 0, PT, nil, 0, 0 ; MT 55

Army Training, 3, 0, PT, nil, 0, 0 ; Cer
Modern Warfare, 6, 0, Cer, nil, 1, 0 ; Tac

Airborne Tactics, 7,-2, Tac, Env, 1, 0 ; Cmb

Anti-Tank Guns, 6,-2, Cst, nil, 2, 0 ; Whe
Field Artillery, 6,-2, Whe, nil, 2, 0 ; Hor
Heavy Artillery, 6,-2, Hor, nil, 2, 0 ; Chi

Tank Development 1, 6, 0, PT, nil, 3, 0 ; Mys
Tank Development 2, 5,-1, Mys, nil, 3, 0 ; Iro
Tank Development 3, 6,-1, Iro, Mag, 3, 0 ; Mat
Tank Development 4, 7,-2, Mat, ToG, 3, 0 ; Alp
Tank Development 5, 7,-2, Alp, Chi, 3, 0 ; SE
Tank Development 6, 7,-2, SE, Ref, 3, 0 ; Stl

-----------------------------------------------------------------
SCIENCE
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Basic Education, 0, 0, PT, nil, 3, 1 ; Wri
Higher Education, 4, 0, Wri, nil, 3, 1 ; Uni 85

Improved Engineering, 4, 0, Uni, nil, 3, 1 ; Mag 45
Improved Combustion, 4, 0, Mag, nil, 3, 1 ; ToG

Improved Chemistry, 4, 0, Uni, nil, 3, 1 ; Che 10
Improved Explosives, 4,-1, Che, nil, 3, 1 ; Rec
Propellants, 4,-1, Rec, nil, 3, 1 ; Bro

Jet Engine, 4,-2, Bro, ToG, 2, 2 ; Min

Electronics, 4, 0, Mag, Che, 3, 1 ; E1
Atomic Elements, 6,-1, E1, Mas, 2, 3 ; Ato
Nuclear Fission, 6,-1, Ato, nil, 2, 3 ; NF
Manhattan Project, 6,-1, NF, Aut, 2, 3 ; FP

-----------------------------------------------------------------
NAVY
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Navy, 0, 0, PT, nil, 0, 3 ; Nav
Merchant Navy, 4, 0, Nav, nil, 0, 3 ; Pot 65

Naval Development 1, 6,-2, Nav, nil, 0, 3 ; Map
Naval Development 2, 6,-2, Map, nil, 0, 3 ; Pla
Naval Development 3, 6,-2, Pla, nil, 0, 3 ; War

Submarine Wafare, 6,-2, Pla, nil, 1, 3 ; Sup 80

Aircraft Carriers, 4,-2, War, nil, 0, 3 ; Esp

Super Battleships, 6,-2, War, MP, 0, 3 ; Sea 75

Closed Circle Engine, 4,-2, Sup, Bro, 1, 3 ; NP

-----------------------------------------------------------------
AIRFORCE
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Air Force, 0, 0, PT, nil, 1, 2 ; AFl 0
AA Emplacements, 6, 0, AFl, Hor, 0, 2 ; Rad

Fighter Development 1, 7,-1, AFl, nil, 1, 2 ; Fli 30
Fighter Development 2, 7,-2, Fli, Mag, 1, 2 ; Phy
Fighter Development 3, 7,-2, Phy, ToG, 1, 2 ; Rob

Tankbuster Aircraft, 6,-2, Rob, Whe, 1, 2 ; Lit

Bomber Development 1, 6,-2, AFl, nil, 3, 2 ; Med 50
Bomber Development 2, 7,-2, Med, nil, 3, 2 ; Env
Bomber Development 3, 8,-2, Env, nil, 3, 2 ; Sth

Radar AA Emplacements, 4, 1, E1, Bro, 0, 2 ; Cur

-----------------------------------------------------------------
CONTROLLERS
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Anti-Reich Propaganda, 1, 0, PT, nil, 2, 0 ; X1
Anti-Japan Propaganda, 1, 0, PT, nil, 2, 0 ; X2
Anti-USSR Propaganda, 1, 0, PT, nil, 2, 0 ; X3 95
Anti-UK Propaganda, 1, 0, PT, nil, 2, 0 ; X4
Anti-USA Propaganda, 1, 0, PT, nil, 2, 0 ; X5

-----------------------------------------------------------------

**curtsibling** · August 3, 2004, 10:43

I have put it into an easy-to-read form if you want to study the text file:

Attached Files

tech-layout-d3.txt (7.5 KB, 106 views)

**Eivind IV** · August 6, 2004, 19:40

@ninurta:
Thank you! Your name is in the credits

@Curt:
Neat technique. Much simpler than mine. I'll be sure to use it next time

You'll find your name there as well, curt

Thank you all for downloading version one. But here's the final version!

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