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  • Newcomer to Apolyton, current game log

    Greetings!

    I have recently rediscovered the joys of CivII after a few years of not playing. Back when I was playing a few years ago, I had no problem playing at Prince level (surprise, surprise), but King routinely gave me troubles.

    In the past few weeks, I have started playing again at the Prince level, which gives me no problems at all. I have just stepped up to King, and figured I would post my current game log for all to see and comment.

    === begin game log ===
    Normal sized world, King difficulty, raging hordes, standard rules, playing as the Americans.

    Game start: I get irrigation, mining, roads (duh), alphabet and code of laws!

    [1] 4000 BC: Lykaon looks across the plains towards a distant river delta, "There is where I shall settle and build my empire."
    Start at coordinates (93,31), about mid-latitude north of the equator. We have a single settler , but he is next to a river, with wheat, forests, some ocean, desert, and plains within his view. Two river tiles are shielded grassland.
    Settler moves northeast to river. Next turn will move to mouth of river and found first city.

    [2] 3950 BC: "If we are to keep this village as our own, we must be prepared to defend it with our lives."
    Washington founded at mouth of river and begins building warriors.

    [3] 3900 BC: "We cannot just leave dead bodies lying around all over the place. Figure out something to do with them... have a ceremony or something."
    Ceremonial Burial research started.

    [4-6] 3850-3750 BC: "We're sorry, our chief is... indisposed... at the moment."
    Zzzzzz...

    [7] 3700 BC: "Wow, that burial idea really took off. Maybe I should claim divine inspriation and lead these people. Hey! Yeah, you guys with the stone axes! Why don't you go see what's beyond this river delta instead of hitting each other all the time... see where all this water comes from."
    Ceremonial Burial research complete. Monarchy research started.
    Warriors produced at Washington. Warriors begin exploring upriver.

    [8] 3650 BC:
    Warriors explore river. River is very short. Hut in forest adjacent to river headwaters, which we ignore for now. Headwaters seem like a decent place for city site #2 (on river, access to shielded grassland, 2 turns by river to reach capital). Warrior production in Washington switched to settlers. Washington is undefended!!!

    [9] 3600 BC:
    Warriors exploring headwaters. Settlers in production.

    [10] 3550 BC:
    Warriors continue exploring westwards. Weat nearby. Ocean to west.

    === turns 11 to 20 follow ===

  • #2
    === turns 11 to 20 ===

    [11] 3500 BC:
    Warriors continue exploring.

    [12] 3450 BC: "What am I supposed to do with this black... goo?"
    Warriors continue exploring. Oil in desert to south of site for city#2.

    [13] 3400 BC: "Zzzzzz..."
    Warriors continue exploring.

    [14] 3350 BC:
    Warriors continue exploring.

    [15] 3300 BC: "Zzzzzz... *yawn* *stretch*."
    Warriors continue exploring.

    [16] 3250 BC: "What? Yes, that's right... the gods themselves told me to tell you folks that they want me to lead you. Apparently our burying all those corpses kept us from offending their delicate godly noses or something. What? Mix copper and tin together? You've got to be kidding me... okay, prove to me that it can be done."
    Monarchy research completed. Bronze Working research started (choices were bronze working, map making, masonry, pottery, warrior code, and writing).
    Revolution! Monarchy government established. Tax set at 3.0.7 (tax.lux.res). 9 turns for research.
    Warriors continue exploring. Found whales in small "lake", found second river about 4 tiles south of Washington... possible city site #3.

    [17] 3200 BC:
    Warriors explore second river. River has hut nearby, oasis. River is mostly grassland passing through plains/desert.

    [18] 3150 BC:
    Warriors reach ocean to the east. Fish near mouth of river. Good spot for city site #3 (fish + oasis). Tile that gives fish + oasis + wheat + whales is a desert tile. Washington was using the wheat anyway...

    [19] 3100 BC:
    Warriors head upstream. Find another hut.

    [20] 3050 BC: "Okay... see this shiny stuff? It can be yours if you get off your collective arses and get out of town!"
    Washington rush produces settlers.
    Warriors continue upstream. Headwaters of river possible location for city site #4?

    === turns 21 to 30 follow ===

    Comment


    • #3
      === turns 21 to 30 ===

      [21] 3000 BC: "And stay out!"
      Settlers produced at Washington. Production of more settlers commences. Settlers head upriver to city site #2.
      Warriors continue exploring. Coastline heads southwest... will explore along the coast for a while.

      [22] 2950 BC:
      Settlers reach city site #2, will build on next turn.
      Warriors continue exploring.

      [23] 2900 BC: "They what? Another village? And they want me to lead them too?"
      Settlers found Lovettesville. Lovettesville starts building warriors.
      Warriors continue exploring.

      [24] 2850 BC:
      Warriors continue exploring.

      [25] 2800 BC:
      Warriors continue exploring.

      [26] 2750 BC:
      Warriors continue exploring. Lots of plains west and south of city site #4.

      [27] 2700 BC: "And it's harder than either of the two metals alone? Neat! Maybe we can make this shiny stuff into something more easily handled."
      Bronze Working research completed. Currency or Horseback Riding? Currency chosen... will tip huts for possible Horseback Riding.
      Warriors continue exploring.

      [28] 2650 BC:
      Warriors continue exploring. Find buffalo about 4 tiles west of city site #4.
      Warriors produced at Lovettesville, fortifying. Lovettesville production changed to settlers.

      [29] 2600 BC:
      Warriors continue exploring. Find another hut. Will tip next turn to maybe get Horseback Riding.

      [30] 2550 BC: "I'm rich! Now go make me another village."
      Warriors tip hut for 50 gold. 76 gold in treasury.
      Washington rush builds settlers.

      === turns 31 to 40 follow ===

      Comment


      • #4
        === turns 31 to 40 ===

        [31] 2500 BC:
        Settlers produced at washington. Production of more settlers commences. Settlers head to mouth of second river (city site #3).
        Warriors continue exploring.

        [32] 2450 BC:
        Warriors continue exploring. Find coal. Coal/buffalo/oil city site would be in the ocean.
        Settlers en route to city site #3, will tip hut on the way (risky?).

        [33] 2400 BC:
        Settlers tip hut for 50 gold. 98 gold in treasury.
        Warriors continue exploring. Desert north of coal.

        [34] 2350 BC:
        Warriors continue exploring. Desert is small, with grassland on the other side.
        Settlers reach city site #3, will build next turn.

        [35] 2300 BC: "Hey, these... coins... they're pretty cool. Put my face on them and we'll use 'em. What are you doing? Okay, if you want to play with those big... dog-like things, then fine."
        Currency research complete. Choices are Horseback Riding, Trade, Map Making, Writing. Chose Horseback Riding for faster exploration. Will choose Trade next (will Trade be available next?).
        Settlers found Norfolk. Norfolk starts building warriors.
        Lovettesville rush builds settlers.
        Warriors continue exploring. Find wheat north of desert. Wheat/coal/oil city site is grassland on coast. New city site #4. Old city site #4 is now city site #5.

        [36] 2250 BC:
        Lovettesville produces settlers. Production of more settlers commences. Will switch to horsemen when research is complete.
        Settlers tip hut en route to city site #4 for 50 gold. 70 gold in treasury.
        Warriors continue exploring. Land is narrowing, we may be nearing the end of the world here...

        [37] 2200 BC:
        Warriors continue exploring. Possible isthmus ahead? If so, we have a potential choke point, though it's only plains and not the most defensible position.

        [38] 2150 BC:
        Warriors continue exploring. Isthmus turns out to be a peninsula . Time to explore somewhere else.
        Lovettesville will need some irrigation in the not too distant future. Washington is okay for now.

        [39] 2100 BC:
        Settler reaches city site #4. Will build next turn.
        Warrior backtracking to nearest black tiles, hoping for some more land.
        Currently netting 3 gold, 8 beakers per turn. Must have more!

        [40] 2050 BC:
        Warriors produced at Norfolk, fortifying. Production in Norfolk switched to Settlers.
        Settlers found Charles Town on city site #4. Charles Town starts building warriors. Charles Town is producing 4 food, 2 shields, 1 trade and 1 beaker.
        About 2 turns until Horseback Riding research is completed.

        === turns 41 to 50 follow ===

        Comment


        • #5
          === turns 41 to 50 ===

          [41] 2000 BC:
          Warriors finally reach black tiles and continue exploring. More plains...

          [42] 1950 BC: "You can ride those things? Someone really needs to scribble down where we've been."
          Horseback Riding research complete. Choices are Map Making, Masonry, Mysticism, Polytheism, Pottery, Warrior Code, and Writing (no Trade!). Chose Map Making for triremes and path to harbors, etc.
          Warriors continue exploring. End of land to the east. Whales found! New city site #5 chosen, though we may fight with Charles Town for wheat/coal. Old city site #5 now city site #6.
          Warriors returning to Washington. Stupid me has left Washington completely unprotected for 42 turns!
          Lovettesville production changed to horsemen, rush build.
          Washington rush builds settlers. 53 gold in treasury.

          [43] 1900 BC:
          Washington produces settlers. Production of more settlers commences.
          Settlers head for new city site #5.
          Horsemen explore north from Lovettesville. Ahh, the joys of 2 movement! Wheat found.
          Warriors returning to Washington.

          [44] 1850 BC: "That many? What are you, rabbits?"
          Civilization reaches 100,000 citizens.
          Horsemen continue exploring... right into forests. So much for 2 movement.

          [45] 1800 BC:
          Warriors produced in Charles Town, fortifying. Charles Town production switched to horsemen.
          Horsemen continue exploring.
          Production in Lovettesville switched to settlers. Should have switched it when horsemen were produced.

          [46] 1750 BC:
          Horsemen continue exploring. Mountains and swamps found (yay).

          [47] 1700 BC:
          Horsemen continue exploring.
          Partial rush build of Norfolk settlers. Halfway to completion now.

          [48] 1650 BC: "We're [in]famous!"
          Tacitus names our civilization the largest in the world!
          Horsemen continue exploring... slowly.
          Warriors still returning to Washington, e.t.a. 5 turns.
          Settler still en route to city site #5, e.t.a. 3 turns.

          [49] 1600 BC: "So _that's_ what it looks like when the gods are looking down from above... Hey, take some of these coins and see if you can find someone who wants them."
          Map Making research completed. Trade research started.
          Horsemen continue exploring... swamp.
          Partial rush build of Lovettesville settlers so irrigation can begin.

          [50] 1550 BC:
          Horsemen continue exploring swamp. Grassland to the north! We can move 2 spaces again!
          Returning warriors reach Lovettesville, will travel by river to Washington.

          === turns 51 to 60 follow ===

          Comment


          • #6
            === turns 51 to 60 ===
            [51] 1500 BC: "We're... poor!"
            Settlers reach city site #5, will build next turn.
            Horsemen exploring grassland... only one grassland tile surrounded by forests. So much for 2 movement. Silk found, though.
            Lovettesville and Norfolk rush build settlers. 4 gold in treasury.

            [52] 1450 BC: "Welcome home!"
            Warriors finally return to Washington. Washington is no longer undefended!
            Lovettesville produces settlers. Settlers begin irrigation of river tiles. Production in Lovettesville switched to temple.
            Norfolk produces settlers. Settlers en route to city site #6 via river, e.t.a. 2.33 turns. Production in Norfolk switched to horsemen.
            Charles Town produces horsemen to guard the city. Production in Charles Town switched to trireme.
            Settlers found Atlanta on city site #5. Atlanta starts building horsemen.
            Horsemen exploring forests near silk tile. Find hut, will tip next turn. More grassland to the north!

            [53] 1400 BC: "What is this giant statue I am hearing about?"
            Aztecs begin building the Colossus!
            Washington's warriors fortified.
            Horsemen tip hut for Masonry, continue exploring into grassland.

            [54] 1350 BC:
            Horsemen continue exploring northern grassland. Find ocean and hills.
            Settlers found Chicago on city site #6. Chicago starts building horsemen.
            About 60 percent done with Trade research.

            [55] 1300 BC:
            Horsemen explore hills, plains on other side.

            [56] 1250 BC:
            Horsemen come down from hills and explore plains. Grassland and forest ahead.

            [57] 1200 BC: "Someone actually gave you something for those coins? Incredible! Now find me something to put all these other coins in."
            Trade research complete! Pottery research started.
            Washington produces settlers. Settlers begin irrigation of river tiles. Production in Washington switched to caravan.
            Horsemen continue exploring. No encounters with other civilizations yet. We may be all alone on a continent...

            [58] 1150 BC: "Aw, come on, you can't suspend an entire garden! And what's with this giant pointy building I keep hearing about?"
            Civilization reaches 200,000 citizens.
            French begin building Hanging Gardens.
            Aztecs switch from Colossus to Pyramids.
            Horsemen continue exploring. Find buffalo.
            Norfolk rush builds horsemen (preparation for Colossus?).

            [59] 1100 BC: "I want a giant statue too!"
            Norfolk produces horsemen to guard the city. Production in Norfolk switched to Colossus.
            Washington partial rush builds caravan.
            Atlanta produces horsemen. Production in Atlanta switched to caravan.
            Horsemen continue exploring. Find and tip hut near recently-discovered buffalo for advanced tribe! San Francisco tribe begins building horsemen.


            [60] 1050 BC: "We're still poor! "
            Horsemen continue exploring. Find pheasant near San Francisco!
            Washington partial rush builds caravan. 15 gold in treasury, income of 7 gold per turn.

            === turns 61 to 70 follow ===

            Comment


            • #7
              === turns 61 to 70 ===

              [61] 1000 BC: "Zzzzzzz..."
              Horsemen continue exploring.

              [62] 975 BC: "Is there anybody out there..."
              Horsemen continue exploring. Find and tip hut for Mysticism.
              We are all alone on this continent. Trireme exploration and trade are now priorities.

              [63] 950 BC:
              Chicago produces horsemen to guard city. Production in Chicago switched to settlers for possible city sites 7, 8, 9 (and 10?) discovered by exploring horsemen.
              Horsemen finished exploring continent, save for cleanup of a few black tiles. Horsemen returning to Lovettesville, exploring few black tiles on the way.

              [64] 925 BC:
              Zzzzzz...
              Horsemen returning to Lovettesville.

              [65] 900 BC: "Hey, a coin holder thingy! You know, someone really ought to find a place to put all these boats people keep leaving on the shoreline."
              Pottery research complete. Seafaring research started for harbor and eventually navigation.
              Washington rush builds caravan.

              [66] 875 BC: "Everyone wants one of those big pointy buildings!"
              Civilization reaches 300,000 citizens.
              French switch to Pyramids.
              Washington produces food caravan. Production of more caravans commences. Caravan en route to Norfolk.
              Charles Town produces trireme. Trireme takes Charles Town horemen on a boat ride.
              San Francisco produces horsemen to guard city. Production in San Francisco switched to settlers.

              [67] 850 BC:
              Lovettesville builds temple. Production in Lovettesville switched to caravan.

              [68] 825 BC:
              Washington's settler finished irrigation of river tiles and begins road to connect with Norfolk.
              Atlanta rush builds caravan.
              Trireme explores along coastline.

              [69] 800 BC: "Love is in the air..."
              Civilization reaches 400,000 citizens.
              Atlanta produces caravan. Caravan en route to Norfolk. Production of more caravans commences.
              Caravan from Washington reaches Norfolk and helps build Colossus.
              Trireme continues exploring. Finds whales within 2 tiles of shoreline.

              [70] 775 BC: "Land ho!"
              Trireme continues exploring. Foreign shores ahead?

              === turns 71 to 78 follow ===

              Comment


              • #8
                === turns 71 to 78 ===

                [71] 750 BC: "Um... kill that lookout."
                Trireme continues exploring. "Foreign shores" turns out to be single forest tile.

                [72] 725 BC:
                Charles Town production switched from trireme to caravan... should have done this back in 875 BC when trireme was first built...
                Trireme continues exploring, more foreign shores found.
                Horsemen still returning to Lovettesville, e.t.a. 2 turns.

                [73] 700 BC: "Hey, I like this dock idea. Maybe you can make some sense out of all this scribbling."
                Seafaring research completed. Choices are Construction, Polytheism, Mathematics, Warrior Code, and Writing. Chose Writing for Diplomats. Writing research started.
                Trireme continues exploring. Unloads horsemen on decent-sized patch of land.

                [74] 675 BC: "Um... hello?"
                Horsemen explore new land. Find English!
                English demand Map Making, we give them Map Making, peace, cordial relations.
                We give them trade, worshipful.
                Propose share maps, they agree!
                Looks like the English are also all alone on their own continent... 3 cities.
                Trireme continues exploring English coastline.

                [75] 650 BC:
                Chicago produces settlers. Settlers en route to city site #7... not great site but not horrible (coastal plain with buffalo near). Chicago continues producing settlers.
                Horsemen board trireme to avoid being boxed in by English units.
                Trireme continues exploring English coastline.

                [76] 625 BC:
                Trireme continues exploring English coastline.

                [77] 600 BC:
                Atlanta caravan reaches Norfolk. Helps to build Colossus. Colossus time to completion is now 7 turns.
                Trireme continues exploring English coastline.
                Settlers reach city site #7, will build next turn.

                [78] 575 BC: "Um... zdravstvuytye? You know, we really ought to have some sort of a meeting place for these foreigners. Hey Mark, what was that idea you had a while back...?"
                Lovettesville produces caravan. Lovettesville production switched to Marco Polo's Embassy. Newly produced caravan helps build Embassy.
                Charles Town produces caravan. Caraven en route to Lovettesville. Charles Town production switched to temple.
                Washington produces caravan. Caravan en route to Lovettesville. Washington continues to produce caravans.
                Settlers found Buffalo on city site #7. Buffalo starts building horsemen.
                "White" units spotted near San Francisco. San Francisco horsemen move to investigate. White units are Russian.
                Russians ask us for Seafaring in exchange for Iron Working and we agree.
                Russians ask to for Monarchy in exchange for Warrior Code and we agree.
                Russians demand Masonry, we give them Masonry, peace, enthusiastic relations.
                We give them trade, worshipful.
                Propose share maps, they agree!
                Looks like the Russians are also all alone on their own continent... 4 cities.

                === end of game log for now ===

                Well, there you have it. Any thoughts on how I might grow my civilization better, etc. would be welcomed. All of my cities are at size 4 or smaller right now... some with temples for when they grow a bit larger, some without. Taxes are still at 3.0.7 (tax.lux.sci) and I still need writing and literacy before I can move to the Republic.

                Lykaon

                Comment


                • #9
                  Welcome, Lykaon.

                  I suspect it will be easier to make suggestions if you post the game save as well as the log. The early switch to Monarchy is good. You have started to build the collosus in Norfolk - presumably this is your planned site for the SSC. BTW, the general view is that you should build caravans until you have sufficient to build the wonder in a single turn. Apart from anything else you can spend a few gold on incremental buying while building the vans to help things along. (That applies to MPE as well.)

                  The standard advice is trade, trade, trade. Now that you have discovered the English and the Russians, a ship chain to one or both carrying a stream of vans will fill the coffers and speed research.

                  Incidentally, while you remain in monarchy, it's worth getting your cities celebrating, but that may be tricky until you have a temple in each plus at least 1 good trade route.

                  Anyway that's my 2 bits worth.

                  RJM at Sleeper's
                  Fill me with the old familiar juice

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I was reluctant to upload a save file along with the game log since I'm playing Civ II version 1.0 on a Mac (yes, it's that ancient). I assumed that nobody would be able to read the file; most people seem to be playing Millennium Gold Edition and some version much much higher than 1.0. I will see what I can do to attach the file a bit later today, in case anyone wants to try and read it.

                    It is interesting that you mention building caravans until you have enough to build a wonder outright. I had absolutely never thought of that, but it makes perfect sense! Why have a city waste time building a wonder when you can have it building other infrastructure or units. Let other cities build caravans and when there are enough, just pop out a wonder in a single turn. All this time I've had at least a couple of cities tied up building wonders for no reason, waiting for shipments of caravans to arrive. Live and learn, I suppose...

                    I have also never heard of the "ship chain" concept. I assume it means that you have a series of ships floating in the ocean linking two continents, so that units can board one ship, get transported to the next ship... and so on, spending as little time at sea as possible?

                    Right now I'm working on Marco Polo's Embassy and the Colossus. Any thoughts on what wonders I should build next? I think Lighthouse should be one, since it looks like an island hopping game so far.

                    Thanks for your thoughts.

                    Lykaon

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well, here is an attempt at putting up a save file for people to view. I have no idea if it will be readable by anyone since it's from Civ II 1.0 on a Mac.

                      I tried to use the same naming conventions for the .sav and .zip file that I saw in other threads.

                      Good luck!

                      Lykaon
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Keep up the log, the commentary makes for a fun read!
                        No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, getting an MGE edition won't cost you much I think; the game's old so the price will be next to nothing!
                          "An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
                          "Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You worked out the naming thing for the save and it unloads as version 2.42 custom.

                            Nice game you have going. Trade will be a big help with this island map.
                            good luck.

                            Monk
                            so long and thanks for all the fish

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lykaon

                              I have also never heard of the "ship chain" concept. I assume it means that you have a series of ships floating in the ocean linking two continents, so that units can board one ship, get transported to the next ship... and so on, spending as little time at sea as possible?

                              Lykaon
                              That's the ship chain in a nut shell. With a fully functioning ship chain, you can deliver the cargo in a single turn. It works a treat when combined with railroads.

                              You asked about wonders. The "standard" set for an early landing is mpe, col, cop, shakes, ikes, darwin and perhaps seti at the end plus apollo of course. The lighthouse is much appreciated by our nautical brethren, but I don't build it. If you plan to conquer the world SWA plus Leos is a combination I like, although I believe there are some who disagree. HG is often used for the early hapiness issues. I don't bother with the other hapiness wonders, but they have their fans in special circumstances. KRC is regarded by many as more expensive than it's worth, but Hoover is good if you have a big empire with many factories. Some people like the pyramids, but I think they cause too many early unhapiness problems. Don't bother with the GL; you should be able to stay comfortably ahead of the AI by sensible research and tech trading. Generally Manahattan invites trouble that you don't need. I've never bothered with the UN or the GW.

                              I guess there are so many words there that its four bits worth this time.

                              RJM at Sleeper's
                              Fill me with the old familiar juice

                              Comment

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