Global Warming

[Old n Slow]

Originally posted by Mercator


No, they don't.

Hmmm, I could be wrong, after all it WAS a while ago.

But I guess I'm getting close to Bloody Monk's age and may be entitled to some of his senior moments.

[:) Smiley]

Researched it once comprehensively for a scenario.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94099

[ramses II.]

Have at least 2 engineers per city (or 3 after supermarkets). Build mass transits when the tech is available. Build solar plants when they are availaible.
Depending on the size of your empire, the danger of a global warming can be reduced to zero by solar plants (at least 15, but if you've got more than 100 cities, you need 60 or more - the yellow ring with the white core will disappear).
Fight the pollution the moment, when it appears, if possible.
Again the key is trade: You'll need tons of money to rush the needed improvements - so trade, trade, trade!

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by ramses II.
Have at least 2 engineers per city (or 3 after supermarkets). Build mass transits when the tech is available. Build solar plants when they are availaible.
Depending on the size of your empire, the danger of a global warming can be reduced to zero by solar plants (at least 15, but if you've got more than 100 cities, you need 60 or more - the yellow ring with the white core will disappear).
Fight the pollution the moment, when it appears, if possible.
Again the key is trade: You'll need tons of money to rush the needed improvements - so trade, trade, trade!

Except perhaps where you need to quickly install a massive RR network or quickly clear Nuke Skulls, 2 or 3 engineers per city is too much. Even one per city is probably too much.

Each engineer is a lost city or, by joining, that missing third citizen that is needed to celebrate. More and bigger cities also bring in trade arrows, don't you see.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

On Solar Plants

I thought some about what ramII said about building Solar Plants and whether that would help in a post Nukefest world with dozens of skulls.

I made a little test using a previous save from one of the SXN games, Soupy Sales. I opened the cheat menu and spy-bombed a handful of cities which led to some retaliation. It ended with about 68 skulls. The sun went from all white to white with red lines.

I then built everywhere factories, the solar plants, then mass transit, and watched what happened. No engineer based cleanup was done and AI engineers were destroyed anytime they tried to cleanup. And yes they did detail a few engineers for that task.

The sequence has gone as Mercator said with the ice caps melting five turns after the "Scientist warn" warning.

The one thing new that I learned is that even after building solar plants, every city had yellow pollution shields in the city screen. Even size two cities needed mass transit built to end those yellow things.

The test is continueing, but solar plants alone do not seem to have any effect on the number of skulls. Maybe some change will happen if I let it run a while longer.

The terrain changes following the ice caps melting was eye opening. Harbors become a necessity for food. Some grassland changed to plains but more became swamp and a good portion did not change. Not pretty!!

Monk

[duke o' york]

This may seem obvious to you Monk, but I'll make it clear for everyone anyway just in case.

Solar plants eliminate production pollution, and mass transit eliminates population pollution. One without the other can still lead to pollution in your cities. I am interested that you still needed mass transits in smaller cities, because the population pollution is normally based on city size after the discovery of automobile (?), and with only two citizens then I wouldn't expect pollution. Starlifter examined this at CFC a while back, and I'll find the thread for you in a moment.

[edit] I can't find the thread because CFC have got the search facility turned off again! If anyone can get onto CFC when their search is working, or has a link to this thread stored somewhere then please post it. [/edit]

[okosling]

You mean this one, I think?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=765

[duke o' york]

Yes, that would be it. Thanks okosling!

I remember that that was linked to from here more recently. Oops.

[Bloody Monk]

Very interesting link, okosling, and if I have understood it properly, then I may have stumbled across something new. For this game is Fundy with Hoover Dam at 85 techs. Perhaps Starlifter would undertake a new test to decide the following proposition.

Pollution is increased by the Global Warning message.

BTW, I was speaking a touch dramatically when I said the yellow shields came up in size 2 cities. There is only one size two city and it has no yellow triangles. They actually began at size 3 with one yellow and increase as the city population increases, though not one for one. This is for cities with a Solar Plant, size 3 and above.

The only additional factor is the "Scientist warn of Global Warning" message, which came a turn or so before this save.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

For comparison, here is a save from three turns later AFTER mass transits and the "Ice Caps Melt" message. Since I was only looking at the Solar Plant effect, little or nothing was done about the military situation. I did have some fun by cheating in the odd BB, just to watch the rain of Cruise Missiles.

Note that MassT rids the yellow triangles and the terrain changes.

Monk

[duke o' york]

I'm afraid it's highly unlikely that Starlifter will do more testing on this, as he was last heard of (to the best of my knowledge) going out to Afghanistan with his unit in late 2002 (?). I hope that he's all right, and that he still finds some time to play Civ 2.

[Bloody Monk]

Thanks, doy, I did not know that. I join you in hoping all is well with him.

Monk

[Father Beast]

I have a friend I was talking to about Civ some years back. He apparently was playing without ever reading the manual.

He said, "It's a great game, but I have one problem with it"

I said, "What's that?"

He said, "Towards the end of the game, all your cities start to starve because the land changes to swamp and jungle."

it took a while before I asked, "do you use a lot of nukes in your games?"

He said, "Of course, it's the best way to conquer."

That explains it

[Bloody Monk]

Amazing to me how much pleasure this game brings to many people with varying knowledge and play styles.

Monk

[ramses II.]

In some of my games I had two global warmings. My pop went down - but I managed to fight it.
I built tons of engineers (about 7 per city) to fight the global warming. They irrigated the swamps and jungles and changed desert to plains and grassland.
Since I had tons of money (I trades like an idiot) I bribed dozens of AI engineers (about 800 to 2000 gold per unit - who cares?) to help me.
Most of the new built engineers founded new cities, and the bribed ones built roads and railroads and improved the land.
After about 20-25 turns my pop was greater than before - and the AI was knocked down by "nature" ...