The Leaders of Civ2- Who are They Really?

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by duke o' york
Are your googling skills not quite up to scratch young padawan?

I think that the ancient cities would be interesting, because there can't be that many people here who don't know where Lyon (without an S, thank you!!!), Philly, Barcelona or Cologne are, but I'd be interested in learning about Teotihuacan (usual Aztec city - sp? after it ) and the other ancient and Sioux cities.

And was there really a Zulu city called Easy Peasy?

RJM at Sleeper's

[Theben]

Instead of Shakala, you could use Uhlanga, goddess of rivers.

Also Tomoe Gozen instead of Amateratsu, a real life female samurai warrior as opposed to a ficticious sun goddess.

[duke o' york]

Are you suggesting that the gracious goddess of the sun, to whom we are eternally grateful for our bountiful harvests, is fictional?

Surely a female samurai wouldn't have been a leader of any kind, if my understanding of samurai is correct. It's hardly an Elizabeth, a Maria Teresa or a Catherine.

[Theben]

Okay, I've 2 conflicting sources. The 1st said that Tomoe was real, the 2nd says fictional. Given the description, I'll go with the latter.

The most famous women warriors are Tomoe Gozen and Hangaku Gozen (sometimes called Itagaki). Interestingly, for both of these women the naginata was not their weapon of choice.

Tomoe was especially beautiful, with white skin, long hair, and charming features. She was also a remarkably strong archer, and as a swords-woman she was a warrior worth a thousand, ready to confront a demon or a god, mounted or on foot. She handled unbroken horses with superb skill; she rode unscathed down perilous descents. Whenever a battle was imminent, Yoshinaka sent her out as his first captain, equipped with strong armor, an oversized sword, and a mighty bow; and she performed more deeds of valor than any of his other warriors.

Tomoe has not ever been proven to be an historical figure--and this was not for lack of trying. She has exerted a fascination upon the Japanese for hundreds of years in the startling image of a beauteous woman who was also a breaker of wild horses and the equal of any man. Tomoe is claimed by more than a few naginata traditions to be either their founder or one of their primordial teachers. There is, however, no historical justification for such claims. She lived centuries before their martial traditions were even dreamed of.

So you can keep Amaterasu. But considering the warlike nature of the Japanese in the game, Tomoe would be a better fit.

[Elephant]

I think Duke was implying that the samurai class was not the leader class - they took orders, not gave them. Sounds like Tomoe was the type that Hollywood would love to make a movie about, though...

[Caesar the Glutton]

Thanks for the interesting info, Smiley. I never realized that some of the leaders were ficticious.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Elephant
I think Duke was implying that the samurai class was not the leader class - they took orders, not gave them. Sounds like Tomoe was the type that Hollywood would love to make a move about, though...

Samurai were both during the Tokugawa era. Samurai were the top caste of society- you had to be a samurai to be a ruler! It was before the Warring states era (Heian/Nara & Kamakura) eras that the aristocrats held power.

[Theben]

Not to mention the numerous other female leaders in Civ2 that weren't rulers...

[:) Smiley]

It's one thing to have a fictitious character, after all, CIV isn't about reenactment, it's about rewriting history.

However, the male rulers given for the Aztecs, Persians, and Spaniards are all rulers who were on the losing end of major battles. Louis XIV and Henry VIII are hardly the greatest of France and England either. It would be like having Richard Nixon as the American leader.

[Old n Slow]

I think that the major qualification might have been expected fame to the potential purchaser.

[Caesar the Glutton]

I remember that Civ I had Stalin instead of Lenin, and Napoleon instead of Louis XIV. I'm not sure if there were other differences in leaders, but it does bring back memories

[:) Smiley]

Civ1:

Frederick was the German leader. Other than that, CtG has the differences accounted for.


Civ3 has a couple of interesting cities: The last of the default Greek cities is Apolyton. There is also a Mingapulco, not sure where it shows up.

[Zenon]

Nice thread, Smiley!

As for Frederick of the Germans I would also sympathize with Frederick II of Prussia (Frederick the Great), who marked with his 48 year reign from 1740 to 1788 the rise of the young and almost unknown Kingdom of Prussia to a European power. In 1871 Prussia achieved finally the vision of Frederick to unify Germany (under William I with Bismack being the political head behind this).

But the picture on the diplomatic screen is medieval and probably shows Frederick I (Frederick Barbarossa), King of Germany and Holy Roman Emperor in the 12th century.

Zenon

[molly bloom]

Re: The Leaders of Civ2- Who are They Really?

Originally posted by Smiley



Germans
Frederick- King of Prussia who unified Germany in 17th century.
Maria Theresa- Empress of Austria during 17th century. Was actually Frederick's main rival.

French
Louis XIV- A powerful and egotistical king from the 17th century, he built Versailles and married Maria Theresa.

English

Elizabeth I- Succeeded Henry VIII, she led England in its rise to a major naval power.

Greeks
Alexander- General who conquered Persia and other parts of the Middle East.

Celts

Boadicea- General who organized Celts in a revolt against Roman occupation.



Vikings
Canute- 11th century Viking general who expanded empire over much of Northern Europe. Later established himself as king of England


Spaniards

Isabella- 15th century queen. She married Ferdinand of Portugal, together they began the unification of the remainder of Spain.

Well, from the top- Bismarck unified Germany in 1871- Frederick the Great expanded Prussia's territory in the 18th Century, but didn't unify Germany.

Maria Theresa of the Holy Roman Empire fought against Frederick after he revealed his territorial ambitions by seizing Silesia.

Louis XIV married Maria Teresa of Spain, but married again to Madame de Maintenon upon the death of his first wife.

Elizabeth I of England succeeded her half sister Mary I to the throne.

Elizabeth's half brother, Edward VI succeeded their father Henry VIII to the throne.

Alexander succeeded his father Philip to throne of Macedonia, and conquered not only the Middle East but the Near East, Greece, Egypt in Africa, parts of Central Asia and India.

Boadicea/Boudicca was queen of the Celtic Iceni located in modern day East Anglia.

King Canute/Knut/Knud was king of Norway and Denmark before becoming King of England too.

Isabella of Castile married Ferdinand of Aragon.

[Lars-E]

Re: Re: The Leaders of Civ2- Who are They Really?

I remember that Civ I had Stalin instead of Lenin, and Napoleon instead of Louis XIV. I'm not sure if there were other differences in leaders, but it does bring back memories

Civ1 was great in "view city" and not much more...

King Canute/Knut/Knud was king of Norway and Denmark before becoming King of England too.

More like Denmark (and Norway). He was Danish and called Knut the Mighty. I think Knud is the modern day Danish form? Knut is a Norwegian name.

Give a rundown on the Historians as well!