The Altera Centauri collection has been brought up to date by Darsnan. It comprises every decent scenario he's been able to find anywhere on the web, going back over 20 years.
25 themes/skins/styles are now available to members. Check the select drop-down at the bottom-left of each page.
Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
I chose to use the starting position as my SSC. I like to avoid any knowledge of the map that is not gained in the course of the game (ie no black clicking, no hut finder, take no notice of suggested SSC site in the starting post). Rather than spend forever searching, I take the best SSC site available when I have 4 caravans ready to build the collossus. In this case, the starting site gives trade arrows from every tile so that was good enough for me. I renamed it to Liverpool after I had chosen it as the SSC.
The good news was that almost every van delivery was demanded. They gave me lots of gold, but didn't help as much with research as they should have done. I was mostly around 2 turns per tech and my deliveries didn't give me enough to trigger a discovery while my SSC was providing enough beakers for the next discovery. Also I didn't get a good ship chain going.
I remembered the lesson from SG(2) and built Darwin's in a more recent city.
My biggest mistake was failure to find and trade with the Indians. I understand how it happened, but it was astounding carelessness.
After launch I had a little problem that (fortunately) didn't affect the landing date. I picked up an Indian city after they declared war and failed to sort out the unhappiness correctly. I consequently spent a long time in anarchy. How do OEDO years work when you've switched to a turn per year after launch? It seemed to take longer than 4 years.
I have a turgidly detailed log, so I can give more details if you're really interested.
My understanding of OEDO after launch is take the last Oedo before the launch and continue the XXXO pattern through the launch turn. You may have been thrown off by the switch from two year turns to one year turns. Post your log and we'll take a look.
I have begun an OCC using this start. Settled London in 3650BC; revolt to Republic in 1250BC. Started Colossus in 1900BC; should be switching to complete as Marco Polo around 800BC. Having Plains for a city square hurts the extra food production.
I have finished my EL game and here is the summary:
Governments
Republic - 1850 BC
Democracy – 300 AD
Wonders
MPE – 1250 BC
ST – 525 BC
Colossus – 350 BC
Copernicus – 125 BC
Isaac's - 120 AD
Darwin's – 420 AD
Apollo – 860 AD
SSC stats
size 8 – 400 BC
size 12 – 300 BC
size 21 – 75 BC
max. size - 35
Techs
Trade – 1450 BC
Invention – 100 BC
Railroad – 400 AD
Automobile - 620 AD
Nuclear Power – 720 AD
Computers – 780 AD
Flight – 800 AD
Space Flight – 840 AD
Key civ contact – 1150 BC
AC arrival – 956 AD
I tried a few new things this game, but they did not work well. Barbarians were plentiful and sometimes interrupted progress.
I followed RJM’s lead by renaming my capital to Liverpool, founding it where the settlers started the game. London followed later at the suggested SSC site. This site permitted a lot of farmland and a large population, so I decided to include Refrigeration in my own tech path to maximize SSC growth. After converting most land tiles to grassland and farmland, 35 citizens were produced just before transforming the land specials to wine.
I would say that below average trade and the lack of good helper and colony management were the two things that prevented a better landing date. This excellent SSC site deserved a better effort.
Following is the log of my game:
BC years
4000 Liverpool
3900 York
3800 Alphabet
3650 York – warrior
3550 Code of Laws
3400 Liv – settlers, Yor – warrior
3300 Nottingham
3200 Liv – warrior
3150 Writing
3000 Liv – warrior
2850 Yor – settlers
2800 Hastings
Originally, I had planned more cities north and west of these first few helpers, but barbarians kept interrupting progress in this direction, so I decided to cluster the remaining helpers around the SSC site, the center of which had to be converted from forest to plains, before it could be founded. Most of the helper sites did not have much of their own to make them productive and this hurt the progress of the game later on.
2750 Bronze Working
2700 Has – warrior
2500 Liv – settlers
2450 Canterbury
2400 Literacy
2200 Yor – settlers
2050 Not – settlers
Barbs appeared again, and many more times later on. Although there were enough defenders to hold onto cities, one was knocked down in size during an attack. Several times, settlers had to be fortified in existing cities to help protect them. They are good defenders, too, although doing this wastes their valuable time.
1950 Republic, Liv – settlers
1900 Can – settlers, Coventry, revolution
1850 government to Republic, London
London was the SSC and founding it was delayed by the forested central tile. The site was excellent, so it was too bad that helpers could not be as productive, which is why more helpers than usual were added.
The first experiment in this game was to control helper happiness only with luxuries, the idea being to delay their temples and/or colosseums until luxuries were no longer needed for SSC “we love” growth. This allowed more production to go into caravans and ended up speeding up early trade and SSC development, but it turned out that a luxury setting of 30% was needed to sustain happy helpers. I think it might have been a better idea to try the HG or earlier temples instead.
I also decided on early Republic in this game, since opportunities for collecting tribute were limited by starting on a separate island. Republic was gifted to each AI on first contact, too, to speed up their research.
1700 Currency
1450 Trade
1400 Liv – food
1350 Yor – food
1250 Has – Marco Polo’s Embassy, Not – silk, Celts – trade for Map Making and Ceremonial Burial, share maps
After building MPE, I could see that the AI had the usual collection of available techs, including: Ceremonial Burial, Horseback Riding, Map Making, Pottery, Warrior Code, Masonry, Mysticism, and The Wheel. Three AI were in the process of learning Mathematics, Iron Working and Construction, so building MPE as the first wonder was worth while.
I usually maximize my own science setting throughout EL games, but in this one decided to use less science early on, hoping that this would give the AI more time to learn techs on my behalf, allowing me to use more resources for luxuries and economic development. At first, this plan worked very well, but later on, the AI kept picking useless or known techs for their research choices, and were practically no help at all in acquiring new techs during the second half of the game.
1200 Cov – trireme, French – trade for Mysticism, share maps
1150 Indians – trade for The Wheel, give tech, share maps
1100 Lon – hides, Can – trireme
1050 Aztecs – peace, trade for Iron Working, give tech, share maps
1000 Americans – trade for Construction, give tech, share maps
925 Not – diplomat, Yor – hides
Yet more barbs on the horizon, so a diplomat was needed.
900 Lon – beads, Zulus – trade for Mathematics, give tech, share maps
850 Americans – give tech, share maps, silk(d) to Delhi, 205g
825 Lon – hides, Has – wine
800 Cov – beads, Philosophy, Engineering, Liv – silk, hides(d) to Madras, 216g
775 Lon – marketplace, Can – beads
750 Not – trireme
725 Bridge Building
There was a lot to do to get London ready, so this tech was given more priority than usual. I had 3 settlers working on London’s tiles.
700 wine(d) to Delhi, 220g, Indians – give tech, share maps
675 Lon – dye, Medicine, beads(d) to Madras, 248g
650 silk(d) to Madras, 264g, Newcastle
Newcastle was the first colony, built on the continent shared by the Celts and Aztecs. As with helpers, colonies in this game did not perform very well.
Finally 150g in compensation for all their harassment.
600 Liv – dye, Americans – trade for Astronomy, Celts – war
575 Lon – library, Not – silver, Yor – dye
550 Lon – salt, Cov – silk, Can – hides, Celts – peace, trade for Seafaring, beads(d) to Tenochitlin, 240g, hides(d) to Carmarthen, 232g
525 New – diplomat, Lon – Shakespeare’s Theater, we love begins, Chemistry, barb legion bribed, 82g, Zulus – give tech, peace, share maps
Barbs were also strangely attracted to my first colony, Newcastle, too, where a diplomat became the first priority! In spite of barb troubles, London was off to a very good start, and at this time I thought this game might still have some hopes for an excellent landing date, perhaps challenging the 500 AD barrier. It would take a lot of luck, though.
500 beads(d) to Tlateloclo, 248g
475 New – copper, Lon – harbor, hides(d) to Zimbabwe, 344g
450 Sanitation, Has – copper, silk(d) to Bombay, 450g
425 New – temple, Lon – university, Not – dye, Yor – dye, Liv – beads
400 Cov – silk, Can – silk, Lon – size 8
375 Lon – aqueduct
350 Lon – Colossus
325 New – diplomat, salt(d) to Teotihuacan, 468g, riot incited in Rheims for 291g, 79g plundered along with Banking, French – give tech, peace, share maps
Rheims was the second colony, well positioned on the French continent. It seemed more efficient to bribe an existing AI city rather than build a settler and transport it across the map to found a colony. For the third colony, I had my eyes on the Celt city of Armagh, but when I was ready to buy it, it was size 8 and the cost was over 1100 gold, which was no longer a bargain. It’s amusing to see that the AI are quite ready to make peace right after you’ve stolen one of their best cities! This is one of the most endearing qualities exhibited by the AI and I doubt that a human opponent would react in the same way!
300 Rhe – temple, Lon – sewer system, size 12, Aztecs – give tech, share maps, copper(d) to Paris, 56g
250 Lon – cloth, Has – silk, Liv – dye, Economics, dye(d) to Ulundi, 522g
225 Lon – bank, Can – silk, Not – dye, Yor – dye
Here is where I blew any chance for an excellent result. Since the AI turned out to be good for only a few more techs, it was time to build Copernicus immediately, and put temples in helpers so that science could be maxed out. In this game, I prioritized economic development, instead, building a stock exchange next in the SSC.
175 Cov – silk
150 Lon – stock exchange
125 New – dye, Lon – Copernicus’s Observatory, Cov – harbor, copper(d) to Carmarthen, 264g, Celts – give tech, share maps
100 Rhe – gems, Invention
75 Lon – salt, size 21, Cov – colosseum, Can – harbor, Liv – beads
London was already size 21 in BC years, which was good progress, but I had big plans and now it was a race to Explosives so that I could make 4 engineers and get them working on the SSC tiles.
50 Has – hides, Not – dye, Yor – dye, cloth(d) to Newcastle, 352g
25 Lon – dye, Has – colosseum, Not – colosseum, Yor – coloseeum, Indians – give tech, share maps
Happiness control with temples/colosseums had been delayed far too long, wasting luxuries that could have been better used for faster research.
AD Years
20 New – hides, Can – silk, silk(d) to Carmarthen, 234g
40 Rhe – dye, Has – harbor, Yor – harbor, Indians – trade for Democracy, Zulus – give tech, share maps
60 Can – colosseum, Liv – dye, Gunpowder, dye(d) to Delhi, 88g, French & Aztecs – give tech, share maps
80 Has – temple, Yor – temple, salt(d) to Teotihuacan, 464g
100 Lon – cloth, Cov – silk, Can – temple, Explosives, Liv – temple, dye(d) to Bombay, 448g, Celtic trireme bribed, 196g
With this NON trireme, I planned to anchor off Armagh and wait for the Democracy revolution, so I could bribe it as my first colony.
120 New – engineers, Rhe – engineers, Lon – Sir Isaac Newton’s College, Not – engineers, Yor – engineers, Americans – trade for Navigation, give tech, share maps
140 Lon – gold, Cov – temple, Can – engineers, Metallurgy, Has – engineers, Liv – harbor, Indians – give tech, share maps
160 Lon – gems
180 Conscription, Indians – give tech, share maps
200 Lon – dye, Aztecs – trade for Feudalism, give tech, share maps, Celts – give tech, share maps
220 Physics, hides(d) to Delhi, 100g
240 New – harbor, gold(d) to Bombay, 592g
260 Rhe – colosseum, Lon – courthouse, Magnetism
280 New – colosseum, Steam Engine, gems(d) to Madras, 676g, revolution
Now I had about 1000g and was ready to bribe Armagh, but succumbed to sticker shock, as over 1100 gold was wanted for my intended third colony.
300 government to Democracy, Lon – temple, we love resumes, Cov – silk, Aztecs – trade for Horseback Riding, Indians – give tech, share maps
I needed to reset the tech list and figured I would need Horseback Riding later to learn Chivalry. Of course, once I had this tech, one of the AI started studying Chivalry themselves! Oh well!
320 Electricity, New – diplomat, Has – gems, Not – dye, Yor – dye, barb elephant bribed, 82g, leader – 150g
340 Lon – food, Can – silk, Liv – dye, Celts – give tech, share maps
360 Refrigeration, Not – temple
This experiment with refrigeration and using SSC farmland for more scientists worked very well, but it required having 4 engineers working full time on the SSC tiles in order to get London to maximum size by the time Automobile was discovered. In games without a chance for a railroad connection to an AI city, I think that having extra scientists by using Refrigeration is worthwhile. Otherwise quite a few helpers and colonies would need scientific improvements in order to secure 1 turn advances.
380 Indians – give tech, share maps, Lon – food, Liv – colosseum, French & Zulus – give tech, share maps
400 Lon – supermaket, Railroad
420 Lon – Darwin’s Voyage, Atomic Theory, Industrialization, Has – rifleman, dye(d) to Ulundi, 104g, French – give tech, share maps
Hastings was facing barbs again. This time a defender was needed since the approaching barb had a leader and couldn’t be bribed using a diplomat.
440 Corporation, Lon – gold
460 Zulus – give tech, share maps, Can – transport, dye(d) to Zimbabwe, 472g
480 Rhe – oil, we love begins in all helpers and colonies, Lon – dye, Refining, Yor – transport, barb elephant bribed – 82g, barb leader - 150g, barb knight bribed – 82g
500 New – diplomat, barb knight bribed – 82g, leader – 150g, Not – transport, Cov – transport
Instead of getting a break, barb activities near Hastings and Newcastle became even more intense!
520 Has – transport
540 Steel
580 Lon – food, dye(d) to Marseilles, 464g
600 Rhe – colosseum, Combustion, Cov – engineer, Oxford, gold(d) to Marseilles, 492g, we love ends with London at size 35
Oxford was a minimal helper used to collect SSC wonder bread. SSC commodities had been blocked by trades to Madras earlier in the game, a large AI city with a lot of trade arrows. Size 35 for an SSC is a record for me in EL games. The extra scientists/tax collectors became very useful. The last transformation in London was already underway: the conversion of the two land specials into wine. One of these had started as silk, and then was watered to wheat, then transformed to grass and finally wine.
620 Lon – dye, Automobile, Stratford, gems(d) to Boston – 308g
640 Lon – superhighways, Electronics, Celts – trade for Chivalry, share maps, Indians – give tech, share maps
The plan of having the SSC, helpers and colonies at full size and strength by Automobile worked out, but it was already 640 AD, behind the pace of more successful games. With science maxed out, the SSC was producing 1296 beakers! It’s too bad that not enough trade could be whipped up to cruise in with 2 advances for each turn. Trading opportunities were not as good as in earlier EL games. Without prospects of an excellent result, not as much care or effort as would be usual was expended during the rest of this game.
660 Str – transport, Mass Production, Can – gold, Has – gems, Not – silver, Yor – gems, Liv – oil, dye(d) to Marseilles, 322g
680 Lon – food, Leadership, Aztecs – give tech, share maps, gems(d) to Newcastle, 246g, oil(d) to Newcastle, 322g, Celts – give tech, share maps
720 New – gold, Rhe – superhighways, Lon – wool, Has – wine, Nuclear Power, Not – gems, Yor – cloth, Liv – dye, Can – transport, oil(d) to Lon, 970g, gems(d) to Kells, 396g, Indians – give tech, share maps
740 Str – temple, Tactics, New – superhighways, Lon – mass transit, Cov – gems, Machine Tools, wool(d) to Tours, 672g, gold(d) to Marseilles, 928g
760 Laser, Rhe – hides, Lon – wool, Can – dye, Has – dye, Not – beads, Yor – dye, Liv – cloth, Miniaturization, barb leader – 150g, gold(d) to Liverpool, 434g, wine(d) to Marseilles, 290g, silver(d) to Lyons, 215g
780 Str - coal, New – wine, Cov – food, Computers, gems(d) to Newcastle, 470g, dye(d) to Carmarthen, 340g, beads(d) to Kells, 264g, dye(d) to Tlateloclo, 176g, wool(d) to Tours, 672g, Indians – give tech, share maps
800 Flight, Rhe – hides, Lon – research lab, Radio, Can – gems, Yor – beads, Liv – food, Celts –trade for Monarchy, Indians – give tech, share maps, dye(d) to Paris, 139g
With a research lab, those extra SSC scientists really start to pay off. SSC science now maxed out at 1424 beakers, even after Flight cancelled the Colossus.
820 Str – gems, New – food, Lon – wool, Has – wine, Advanced Flight, Not – dye, hides to London, 204g, coal(d) to London, 377g, wool(d) to Tlateloclo, 532g, silk(d) to Bombay, 212g, cloth(d) to Caernarfon, 197g
840 Rocketry, New – food, Rhe – copper, Lon – gold, Cov – dye, Can – food, Space Flight, Yor – food, Liv – food, dye(d) to Madras, 126g, hides to London, 204g, gold(d) to Besancon, 474g, wine(d) to Besancon, 280g, cloth(d) to Besancon, 107g, wine(d) to Marseilles, 194g, dye(d) to Chartres, 62g, Celts – trade for Warrior Code, Indians – give tech
860 Str – dye, Oxf – Apollo Program, New – food, Rhe – dye, Plastics, Lon – wool, Has – gems, Not – food, hides to London, 204g, Copper to London, 204g
880 Str – C #1, Superconductor, Oxf – S #1, New – S #2, Rhe – S #3, Lon – S #4, Cov – food, Can – food, Has – S #5, Not – S #6, Yor – food, Liv – oil, wool(d) to Hlobane, 672g, dye to London, 204g
900 Str – food, Oxf – S #7, New – S #8, Rhe – S #9, Lon – S #10, Fusion Power, Cov – S #11, Can – food, Has – S #12, Not – food, Yor – food, Liv – C #2
920 Str – S #13, New – S #14, Rhe – S #15, Lon – M #1, Can – M #2, Has – M #3, launch 15-1-1-1-1-1
956 arrival on Alpha Centauri
The save was made at the turn of the launch. I think I will try the OCC version, too.
Now that I've finished my game and posted it, I have a chance to look your's over. Your logs (and games) are always interesting, so a log would be fun to read.
I agree with Elephant about Oedo timing while waiting for a landing, the 4-turn cycle continues irregardless of what year it is.
I'm not sure that anyone will find this log very entertaining, but here it is. My government collapsed in 1822 and I re-established Democracy in 1828. It felt much longer at the time!
RJM at Sleeper's
4000 BC
Decide to build Liverpool at the starting location. Move 2nd settler NW towards river.
Start reseaching alphabet.
3850 BC
Camelot founded at (78,40). Alphabet -> CB
3450 BC
We are wealthiest civ (with 19 gold!)
3200 BC
Bronze -> CoL
3000 BC
Found Avalon at (83,41). Rush phalanx in Liverpool
2950 BC
Start Temple in Liverpool
2700 BC
hit enter after 4 reloads for the hut. CoL -> monarchy
2600 BC
Winchester founded at (79,35)
2450 BC
hit enter pop 100k (1st)
2350 BC
Complete Temple in Liverpool. Trade is at least 14 turns away, but monarchy may improve that. Start barracks for conversion to market place.
2200 BC
monarchy -> currency
2100 BC
revolt to monarchy
2050 BC
Start of English monarchy. Currency still 9 turns away. Sacrifice everything to discovering currency before completion of barracks.
1900 BC
Hirodotus reports we are largest civ with pop 150k.
1800 BC
currency -> trade. switch to market in Liverpool
1450 BC
Complete (non optimal) road network joining all cities ready for caravan traffic.
1350 BC
Avalon completes temple and New Lonon market place. Both start settlers to switch to vans on discovery of trade.
1300 BC
trade -> writing (after much heart searching). Switch to vans in Liverpool and Avalon
1150 BC
Camelot completes temple and starts final van for collossus
1100 bc
Liverpool grows to size 4 and needs an entertainer.
975 bc
build beads in Liverpool for Winchester to get some money even though it delays collossus.
950 BC
start Liverpool celebrating for van delivery
925 BC
writing -> mysticism. Beads (D) Liverpool - Winchester (28) sliders to 10-60-30 to maintain celebration
850 BC
Americans start HG
775 BC
Livy reports we are 3rd most advanced civ Mysticism -> masonry
750 BC
4 vans to Liverpool for Collossus
725 BC
Liverpool builds Colossus and starts library
700 BC
Aztecs start HG
650 BC
Hides (D) Avalon - Liverpool (28)
625 BC
Masonry -> Literacy
600 BC
Hides (D) Winchester - Liverpool (44)
550 BC
Wine (D) Camelot -> Liverpool (44) rush build library in Liverpool
525 BC
Literacy -> Mathematics. Barb archer apears to east of Avalon and Liverpool. Switch to Phalanx in Camelot to protect Avalon
500 BC
Pop 400k. Move Phalanx to Avalon and rehome. Disband Avalon's warrior
475 BC
Celts start HG and French start Pyramids
450 BC
2nd barb archer appears
425 BC
Our phalanx loses to Barb archer move another phalanx from Liverpool and start to panic. Hides (D) Camelot - Liverpool (40) phalanx again loses to archer Mathematics -> philosophy Aztecs complete HG; everyone switches to lighthouse
400 BC
Barb archer kills our settler and the other demands 50 ransom to spare Avalon (which I pay) Fortunately both archers go away
300 BC
Philosophy -> Astronomy -> Medicine
275 BC
Indians start great wall
225 BC
Horoditus says we are 3rd largest civ
200 BC
Indians build pyramids and French change to great wall
125 BC
Pop now 500k
100 Bc
Gloucester founded (76,30). Medicine -> The Republic
25 BC
Hides (D) Winchester - Liverpool (60)
AD 1
6 vans into Liverpool for Copes. Republic -> construction
AD 20
Liverpool builds Cope's
AD 40
Cloth (D) Liverpool - Avalon (74). Revolt to republic
AD 60
English republic founded
AD 80
Construction -> map making
AD 120
Aztecs land I give them 50 gold for peace and then a couple of techs, but they won't exchange maps.
AD 140
Map making -> banking
AD 140
French build great library
AD 160
exchange techs for seafaring, the wheel and iron working. Form alliance with Aztecs. Exchange maps
AD 180
Silk (D) Winchester - Liverpool (102)
AD 200
Celts complete MPE
AD 260
Banking -> engineering
AD 340
Hides (D) Winchester - Liverpool (72)
AD 360
Engineering -> sanitation
AD 400
Americans build Oracle
AD 420
Accept 250 gold to declare war on celts
AD 440
6 vans into Liverpool for Shakes
AD 460
Liverpool builds Shakes
AD 480
Bede says we are 4th happiest civ - aztecs are 2nd Sanitaion -> navigation
AD 520
Hides (D) Winchester - Liverpool (72) pop 900k
AD 540
pop 1M
AD 620
Navigation -> university
AD 660
York founded (79,53) Hides (D) Winchester - Liverpool (54)
AD 680
swapped with aztecs for bridge building. pop now 2m
AD 1620
Silk (d) Gloucester-New York (282) Automobile->electronics
AD 1630
Cloth (d) Avalon-Tlaxcala (165). 8 vans into Gloucester for Darwin's
AD 1640
York builds Darwins Electronics->Mass Production->Nuclear Fission. Silk (d) Camelot-Washington (300) Hides (d) Winchester-Boston (172) trade for horse riding and feudalism Nuclear fission->nuclear power
Whenever I have a bit of bad luck, all I have to do is read the log from one of your games to appreciate a real adventure in misfortune!
I've never seen such bad luck vs. the barbs as you had when losing two phalanxes plus a settler to one barb archer in Avalon! These defenders were probably fortified, too!
You also managed to fall into anarchy shortly after an Oedo turn, making anarchy last almost the maximum amount of turns! BTW, 1828 was a regular Oedo year, so it appears that the cycle is NOT adjusted after a launch to the 1 year increments, and that you ended up spending about 6 turns in anarchy, when the usual expected maximum would only be 4 turns. Can you verify this?
I'd also bet that if you had met the Indians earlier in the game, you might have arrived a few centuries earlier, too. Tech costs can easily double if the key civ happens to be way behind you in number of techs acquired.
Whenever I have a bit of bad luck, all I have to do is read the log from one of your games to appreciate a real adventure in misfortune!
I've never seen such bad luck vs. the barbs as you had when losing two phalanxes plus a settler to one barb archer in Avalon! These defenders were probably fortified, too!
You also managed to fall into anarchy shortly after an Oedo turn, making anarchy last almost the maximum amount of turns! BTW, 1828 was a regular Oedo year, so it appears that the cycle is NOT adjusted after a launch to the 1 year increments, and that you ended up spending about 6 turns in anarchy, when the usual expected maximum would only be 4 turns. Can you verify this?
I'd also bet that if you had met the Indians earlier in the game, you might have arrived a few centuries earlier, too. Tech costs can easily double if the key civ happens to be way behind you in number of techs acquired.
Well it wasn't all bad luck. I still can't believe I didn't find the Indians. I had swapped maps with the Celts who had not discovered them at that point and I put all my energy into finding a (non-existant) safe trireme route to their cities. But I only needed to move 1 more tile and I would have found them, so it's down to bad play.
One of the phalanxes was moved in as a new defender, so wouldn't have had time to fortify. The other would certainly have been fortified.
As far as the anrchy is concerned, once again that was down to bad play. It was nearly the end and I was getting careless. I should have checked and realised that the single rushed temple was not going to be enough to sort out the problem. I can confirm that the dates I've given above are accurate, but I have no saves to verify it with.
Anyone with a save straight after launch care to watch their government fall in the interest of research?
I will test Oedo years after a launch if I can find an appropriate save.
Besides being able to meet the key civ early, another good reason for making MPE the first wonder is that you can find the best trireme routes right after exhanging maps.
Besides being able to meet the key civ early, another good reason for making MPE the first wonder is that you can find the best trireme routes right after exhanging maps.
Wish it were so; if MPE is early enough to avoid the early wars, there is a lot of black space between civs that tells you nothing about how to get there. At least you find out the general direction. More important to me is the Intel screens and the KeyCiv tech gifting.
I finished an OCC landing over the weekend in 1801. I'll post details ASAP. I thought I was doing better than usual in the BC years; things seemed to slow down in the early AD years.
General direction is usually good enough, and pointed me to a trireme route via the Indians in these games, although some black clicking may be needed to confirm exact routes.
RJM,
I did some Oedo tests after this game which confirmed a continued 4 turn cycle just as Elephant predicted.
OCC game using EL #6 start
In this one I wanted to try OCC without growing my city beyond 12 citizens, which I believe is the optimal size for an OCC game. Size 12 allows a tech every two turns after Automobile and also results in a low power rating, allowing more alliances and gifts. We’ll see how size 12 compares when others complete their OCC games using full-sized cities.
This game was played after my EL #6 game, so I had pre-knowledge of the map, although by building MPE instead of exploring, I do not think this pre-knowledge conferred any advantage over those playing OCC first, since no early explorations were undertaken before MPE was finished.
Following is a log of my game:
BC years
3750 Liverpool
3500 Alphabet
3150 settlers (using the size one trick)
3050 Code of Laws, warrior, size 2
3000 settler joins Liverpool, size 3
2950 warrior
2700 Writing
2400 library, barbs land nearby
2300 Bronze Working
2200 diplomat (this scared the barbs away)
1850 Literacy
1350 Republic
1300 revolution
1250 government to Republic
1050 size 4
1000 Currency
875 Trade
850 Marco Polo’s Embassy, Indians – trade for Map Making, Ceremonial Burial, Mysticism, peace, alliance, share maps, 100g gift; French – war; Aztecs – trade for Construction, peace, alliance, share maps, 200g gift
Not a bad payoff for MPE. Other techs available were Masonry, Warrior Code, Horseback Riding, and Pottery. Unknown techs being researched were Mathematics, Monarchy and Polytheism.
825 colosseum, we love begins; Zulus – give tech, peace, alliance, share maps; Celts – give tech, peace, alliance, share maps, 250g gift
800 temple, size 5
775 size 6
750 marketplace, size 7
725 size 8
700 acqueduct, size 9
675 size 10
650 French build Pyramids, size 11
625 Philosophy, Banking, size 12, we love ends, Celts – trade for Mathematics, 25g gift
600 salt, Americans – give tech, share maps
575 Celts – 50g gift
550 trireme, Celts – 50g gift
525 French – peace, share maps, give tech; Zulus – trade for Seafaring
500 beads, Celts – 25g gift
475 Celts – 25g gift
450 hides, Celts – trade for Iron Working, 25g gift; Aztecs – trade for Monarchy, give tech, share maps
375 Medicine, Americans – give tech, share maps
350 salt(d) to Teotihuacan, 360g
325 Aztecs – trade for Bridge Building, share maps; Zulus – trade for Polytheism, give tech, share maps; Indians – give tech, share maps
300 French – give tech, share maps
250 University
225 Celts – give tech, share maps, 50g gift
200 Colossus
150 dye, beads(d) to Teotihuacan, 414g
125 Economics
100 university built
50 food, French – give tech, share maps; Celts – give tech, share maps, 100g gift
AD years
1 food, Zulus – give techs, share maps
20 Chemistry, hides(d) to New York, 433g; Americans – trade for Astronomy; Celts – give tech
40 hides, Indians – trade for Horseback Riding, give tech, share maps
60 French – give tech, share maps
80 hides, Theory of Gravity
100 bribe barb legion, 82g
120 hides, French – give tech, share maps
160 hides
200 hides, The Wheel, dye(d) to Delhi, 464g
220 Copernicus’s Observatory, Engineering
240 dye
260 hides
280 hides, hides(d) to Madras, 600g
300 hides, Invention
320 hides
340 hides
360 hides
380 hides, Gunpowder; Zulus – trade for Monotheism, give tech, share maps; Aztecs – give tech, share maps
400 hides
420 Sir Isaac Newton’s College, Celts – 200g gift; Aztecs – trade for Physics; French – give tech, share maps, alliance, 250g gift
500 food
520 food
540 cathedral, Explosives, French – trade for Steam Engine, give tech, share maps; Zulus – 100g gift
560 food, Zulus – give tech, share maps; Celts 200g gift
580 food, hides(d) to Hlobane, 384g
600 food, Railroad, gems(d) to New York, 344g; revolution
620 dye, government to Democracy
640 food
660 food, Industrialization
680 food, Indians – give tech, share maps; barb leader – 150g
700 food, Celts – 100g gift
720 food, Atomic Theory, gold(d) to Hlobane, 412g
740 gold, French – 100g gift; Aztecs – 100g gift; Indians – give tech
760 Corporation, transport, Americans – trade for Conscription; Celts – 100g gift; Zulus – 75g gift; French – 50g gift; Aztecs – 100g gift; Indians – 50g gift
780 food
800 food, Indians – 50g gift
820 food, Refining, Aztecs – 100g gift; Indians – 50g gift
840 food, Celts – 100g gift; Indians – 50g gift
860 food, French – trade for Magnetism; Aztecs – 100g gift
880 food, Zulus – 100g gift
900 food, Electricity, gold(d) to Hlobane, 412g; dye(d) to Armagh, 328g
920 gold, French 100g gift; Americans – 100g gift
940 food, Combustion
960 food
980 food, Celts – give tech, share maps
1000 food, Steel, gold(d) to Hlobane, 618g; French – 50g gift; Aztecs – 50g gift; Americans – 200g gift; Indians – 100g gift
Getting gold was never a problem in this game.
1020 food, French – 50g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1040 Automobile
1060 superhighways, Americans – 50g gift; Indians – 50g gift
1080 food, Mass Production, Celts – trade for Chivalry, give tech, share maps; French 50g gift; Aztecs – 50g gift; Indians – 100g gift
1100 food
1120 Electronics, Zulus – 75g gift; Americans – 50g gift; Indians – 50g gift
1140 food, French – 50g gift
1160 Leadership
1180 food
1200 Tactics
1220 food
1240 Nuclear Fission, French – give tech, 200g gift; Celts & Zulus – give tech, share maps; Aztecs – 50g gift; Americans – 150g gift; Indians – 100g gift
The Zulus were just about to build Darwin’s so I gifted them all my techs. In this game, this tactic backfired, since they did not pick up anything I needed and also cancelled MPE by learning Communism! Oh well.
1260 Zulus build Darwin’s and learn Communism and Mobile Warfare, food, Americans – 50g gift; Indians – 50g gift
1420 Celts – 100g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1440 hides, Flight
1460 Celts – 50g gift; Zulus – 10g gift
1480 Zulus – 100g gift; gold(d) to Hlobane, 600g
1500 hides, Laser, Aztecs – 100g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1510 hides
1520 Radio, French - give tech, share maps; Celts – 100g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1530 hides
1540 Advanced Flight, French – trade for Navigation; Celts – 100g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1540 hides, hides to Teotihuacan, 198g
1560 Rocketry, Celts – 50g gift, hides to Armagh, 232g
1570 beads, Zulus – 50g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1580 food, Space Flight, hides to Armagh, 232g
By this time I had about 35 caravans/freights saved up.
1590 Apollo Program
1600 S #1, Plastics, Celts – trade for Warrior Code, alliance cancelled; hides to Armagh, 232g
1610 S #2
1620 S #3, Superconductor
1630 S #4, Zulus - 100g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1640 S #5, Celts – give tech, new alliance; Zulus – give tech, 100g gift; Americans – give tech, 50g gift
1650 S #6, beads to Marseilles, 230g, Zulus – give tech, 100g gift; Americans – 50g gift
1660 S #7, Fusion Power, Zulus – give tech, 100g gift; Americans – give tech, 50g gift
1670 S #8
1680 gold
1690 dye
1700 S #9
1710 S #10
1720 S #11, Zulus – 100g gift; gold(d) to Hlobane, 630g; dye(d) to Armagh, 464g
1730 gold
1740 S #12
1750 S #13
1752 S #14
1754 S #15
1756 M #1, gold(d) to Hlobane, 630g
1758 M #2, Fundamentalism
1760 M #3
1762 gold
1764 C #1, Aztecs – give tech, 250g gift; Zulus – give tech, 100g gift; French – give tech, Mobile Warfare as a gift; Aztecs – give tech, 50g gift; Americans – give tech, 150g gift; Indians – give tech, Masonry as a gift
1766 C #2
1768 C #3, gold(d) to Hlobane, 630g
1770 C #4, bribe barb rifleman – 82g, Celts – give tech, 250g gift; Zulus – 100g gift; French – Sanitation as a gift; Aztecs – 50g gift, Americans – 150g gift, Indians – Communism as a gift
1772 C #5, bribe barb rifleman – 82g
1774 C #6, launch 15-3-3-1-1-1, ETA 1789
I made a save here to use for Oedo year tests after a launch. In the tests it turns out that Oedo years continue in 4-turn increments after a launch. 1772 was an Oedo year, and the ones following the launch were 1777, 1781, and 1785, maintaining the 4 turn cycle. It did not matter on which turns I went into revolt.
1775 armor
1777 city walls
1779 coastal fortress
1781 SAM missile battery
1783 armor
1785 artillery
1787 engineers
1789 arrival on Alpha Centauri
This beats my time in the last OCC game using a full-sized city, but this SSC site is a bit better, having an extra trade special. I also lucked out with the placement of the small Zulu city of Hlobane, which allowed a very lucrative stream of gold trades during the second half of my game. We’ll wait and see how others did.
Wonders-
MarcoPolo: 800BC (11 techs available, including Sea, Math, Wheel and Iron; took 4, plus 550 gold and 5 alliances)
Colossus: 100AD
Copernicus: 280AD
Shakespeares: 480AD
Newtons: 780AD
(Celts did Darwins in 960AD, took Communism and Electricity)
Apollo: 1700AD
SSC Stats-
Size 8: 575BC
Size 12: 475BC
Size 21: 660AD (stayed there a while)
Max size: 29 in 1610AD (max Shields 57)
1st TR: 150BC (Indians)
2nd TR: 225BC (Indians)
3rd TR: 80AD (Indians)
Tech Milestones-
Trade: 875BC
Invention: French got (hut?) 40AD; exchange 420AD (trying to prolong doubled delivery bonuses; probably delayed Engineers too long)
RailRoad: 620AD
Automobile: 1080AD
NucPower: 1550AD (I try to get NF and NP last before Flight)
Computers: 1460AD
Flight: 1600AD
SpaceFlight: 1680AD (doing 2 turns/tech, but Dye unblocked)
KeyCiv: MarcoPolo 800BC
Launch 15-3-3-1-1-1 1786AD, arrival 1801. All 6 alliances intact, all civs Enthusiastic.
I'm not at my playing machine right now; I'll post the exhaustive log, final save and CityScreen tonight.
I suggest adding "date SSC founded" to the Summary list...
Last edited by Elephant; November 17, 2003, 14:47.
This was not bad. Luxuries could have been reduced to 10% with a Bank, but I was too busy churning out Food caravans. Gold was flowing in sporadically from 6 alliances, and I had a good 10-shield production line. I delayed Gunpowder to use the Warrior for PRBing 1-turn caravans a little too long, though. Two of those caravans were commodities, awaiting return of my single Trireme; I held the rest till I was sure I could cover both Colossus and Copernicus.
LONDON in 1590AD, max beakers (just before Flight):
Note the unblocked Dye commodity. I kept that open till the end, and a quick run to America or Mexico allowed several 1-turn techs. I lost Gems to an error: Boston had more trade than I thought.
Compared to Solo, I was only six turns off his landing date despite founding later, skipping the Size 1 Settler, and max-sizing later. Not bad.
Last edited by Elephant; November 17, 2003, 21:59.
They gave me lots of gold, but didn't help as much with research as they should have done. I was mostly around 2 turns per tech and my deliveries didn't give me enough to trigger a discovery while my SSC was providing enough beakers for the next discovery. Also I didn't get a good ship chain going.
How do OEDO years work when you've switched to a turn per year after launch? It seemed to take longer than 4 years. 
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