The (Second) MGE Sailing Succession game

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
AAAaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh!

What he said.

Monk

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
AAAaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh!

Could you be more specific?

If the 'vans going to Athens pay off with good bonuses, I'll forgive Jrabbit for the 90 shields at the bottom of the Mare Giganticus.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Rule reminder: No Caravans/Freight to enemy cities; no city bribe for a while longer.

12 turns apiece.

Play list:

1. Oldnslow
2. Ben Kenobi (skipped)
3. STYOM
4. SG[1]
5. Jrabbit
6. La Fayette
7. Straybow
8. duke o' york (only on Sunday mornings)

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
AAAaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh!

Eloquently stated as always, Stu...

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man


Could you be more specific?

If the 'vans going to Athens pay off with good bonuses, I'll forgive Jrabbit for the 90 shields at the bottom of the Mare Giganticus.

Speaking only for myself...It is a question of risk reward.

Dirthole to dirthole deliveries do not pay, even if demanded, which two of three, at least, would not be by the time of delivery--if they haven't gurgled their way to the bottom. Notice there is no dye demand from home islands any longer. Then there is the question of rolling the dice on making it across the sea.... It is a mir-a-cle--praise be!!--that both did not sink. Six turns at sea...!

The final point revolves around accumulating eight camels somewhere to build SOL. The two cashed for 70g + the two sent to Athens put the effort half finished. The Athens deliveries will yield ~ 160g. Half of SOL is worth more (esp considering the risk) than 230g. IMHO.

So "AAAaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh!"

Glad to see the harbor did not get rushed in place of the colosseum And I understand how a Library goes with Xinning but where are the camels coming from?? Yes, I know...there are four key advances before the camel problem ripens. Hopefully, no AI will research Democracy....

Ignoring all and betting everything on risky business is a path but not a plan. And thus do the future dreams of 720,000 Sivians rest now on hope.

Reconsidering this , I still believe Stu said it best.

Monk

[-Jrabbit]

Mea maxima culpa...

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
If the 'vans going to Athens pay off with good bonuses, I'll forgive Jrabbit for the 90 shields at the bottom of the Mare Giganticus.

The 2 camels headed for Athens should pay handsomely, with large distances and separate continents. Too bad we can't celebrate.

This was a huge gamble, and definitely slowed our progress on the Athens side (converted a Settler build to a camel).

Once I committed to the ocean crossing, I decided to hedge my bets with another boatful of loot. Suddenly, I was staring at the possibility of wasting 3 camels and 2 triremes. So you can imagine my relief when the eastbounder reached land...

Why did I do it? I dunno, maybe boredom... I'm not an ICSer, was very frustrated at the inability to do Republic celebration (no happy WoW, virtually no temples), and wanted to Make Something Happen!

Not my finest hour, I'll admit.

I do still believe we can get the Lady. New cash will increase rushbuying ability, new cities will maintain our (decent for a monarchy) techrate, and new Zulu techs will -- we HOPE -- aid rather than hinder the path.

I did circumnavigate the large island that leads to Zulu country, and there are numerous possible city sites there.

In addition, our production ability is about to grow considerably, and replacements for the two cashed camels are nearly done. Can we build enough more before someone claims the Lady? Yes, I think so. I'm virtually certain no one else is in Demo yet. Some internal trade routes in the NW Islands can keep cashflow and research going while our 6 (iirc) core cities crank food vans as fast as they can.

Beyond the obvious "what were you, on drugs?" issue re the ocean crossing, Robust constructive Critics are invited to advise me on the following...

1. As soon as I founded a city (our 9th), I ran into considerable happiness issues. When these cities completed their existing builds, I started temples.
Right or wrong move?

2. I knew that completing trade routes with the 2 camels in Troy would be controversial. (I suspect this was the source of Stu's rather erudite comment...) I needed cashflow, had happiness issues in some small towns, and needed to keep shield production as high as possible. With so little infrastructure (virtually none) and the sliders offering no relief at 10-20% lux levels, I went for it.

Looking back, self-doubt on this decision (and it being 0100 on a work night) probably contributed to my reckless risk-taking later in the turnset.
Not to worry, gang. I've packed my best toothbrushes to use in cleaning floors at...
The Institute.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Well, yeah. I'm not sure what Troy>Athens will yield... there's the distance, and overseas bonus...

If there's still demand, it could be worth it. Troy>Scylla was 110ish... if the 2 vans get close to 300, then a case could be made for the strategy. We'd probably get a tech and a bit from the science bonus, and could rushbuy 12 lines of caravan production @25g each.

That said, I agree that those undemanded Beads vans would be better served as Wonder parts.

Another thought - was the Trireme sent to Athens, the only one serving the home islands? If so, we'll need to build another in order to get 'vans to Troy.

The real key, I think, is the success of our diplomatic corps. Here's hoping that the Zulu battle fleet doesn't send them to the bottom.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Re: Mea maxima culpa...

Originally posted by -Jrabbit

1. As soon as I founded a city (our 9th), I ran into considerable happiness issues. When these cities completed their existing builds, I started temples.
Right or wrong move?

2. I knew that completing trade routes with the 2 camels in Troy would be controversial. (I suspect this was the source of Stu's rather erudite comment...) I needed cashflow, had happiness issues in some small towns, and needed to keep shield production as high as possible. With so little infrastructure (virtually none) and the sliders offering no relief at 10-20% lux levels, I went for it.

[RCC]

1. IMO, either temples, or depending on city size and the number of units already there, Warriors for martial law. We should have enough cities that unit support can be divided among them, and we won't have the problems we had at the beginning (Troy supporting 5 or 6 units at once).

Warriors are cheap compared to Temples, and if needed, they can be broken up to rush something more important, later.

2. I see what you're driving at, but the completed trade route would do almost nothing for ongoing happiness. The sending cities now have routes that give, what, +1 or at most, +2 arrows? Not enough to solve happiness issues at anything less than 50% lux.

If you needed to keep shield production as high as possible... why give up 100 shields (the 2 vans)? Very few of the island cities would be saving more than 1 shield by avoiding an elvis (the only exception would be those islands with multiple Whales). It would thus take 50 turns for the savings to be realized.

[/RCC]

/me is relieved that no-one is picking on his noncelebration error.

[Bloody Monk]

Because of corruption, Athens has almost no base trade. The deliveries won't be anywhere near 300g. Holding the deliveries while Athens builds a courthouse might help some.

By changing Athens production from Settler to camel (now drowned), the rivered coal can't be worked and the hidden special can't be uncovered (prob pheasant). A lot to do there before ICSing.

What are the odds on sending the "lucky" trireme back to the home islands??

And what is wrong with 10 shield warriors for martial law??

Just wondering??

Monk

[-Jrabbit]

Actually, I did produce warriors for martial law in iirc 3 cities.

and yeah, the decision that triggered it all -- changing settler to caravan in Athens -- was not thought through. Originally, I was just working toward the Lady -- camels everywhere. Then I realized where the city was -- in the middle ow nowhere. I should have just eaten one turn's production and switched it back. But NNnnnnoooooooooo...

The more I look at this session, the more I regret it. (sigh)

c'mon, tell me more...

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
(sigh)

c'mon, tell me more...

My what soft pretty ears you have.

Monk

[Scouse Gits]

Having had time to make a more considered criticism than my first (much quoted) outing ...

[RCC]
Pass me the rabbit gun, please.
[/RCC]

Stu

[Scouse Gits]

I think the main points have already been covered - the loss of 4 camels is the single most lamentable aspect, the infrastructure stinks - and so there is no hope of gain from Republic - it is simply a pre-req of Demo which itself is simply (in my eyes) a pre-req of The Lady.

I sympathise with -Jrabbit, in as much as it is very difficult to play your slice of a Succession Game when you are unable to play the game with which you are most comfortable - I was lucky, I deliberately choose 'bad' starts so have lots of practice in playing 'catch up' - this was not a pretty game for a perfectionist to pick up.

That said, the bunnyman had better get himself to The Institute before I get him in my sights! 'cos, "That was a rather poor show, old bean" as they (reputedly) say over here.

Stu

[Scouse Gits]

A note on "Xinning"

Although Xinning is a powerful tool - it is useful to use -Jrabbit(spit)'s last save as an example ...
The Xinning city Scylla is producing 16 beakers, a shield and has a 7 sheaf deficit - moreover it has a trade route with our capital Troy with a value (under the Xin) of zero - this means that Troy only yields 7 beakers, giving 23 beakers in total.

If only the plain sea squares of Scylla are converted to Eins the yield is: 10 beakers, 3 shields, 2 gold and a 2 sheaf surplus -- the trade route now has value 1 which allows Troy to gain (by dint of moving the worker from the forest out to sea) 2 more beakers, 2 more gold for the loss of only 2 shields

So the sum effect of Xinning is for the two cities to produce between them: 23 beakers, 4 gold, 10 shields and -5 sheafs of food - whilst careful micromanagement taking into account the trade route interrelation gives: 19 beakers, 8 gold, 10 shields and +4 sheafs -- 4 beakers cost 4 gold & 9 food - not a good deal in this case IMHO

Stu

[Bloody Monk]

Brilliant, Stu.

And extending a bit further, if the Troy worker is made an ein then the research rate is kept at 8 turns.

One cant assume straight Xinning is always best any more than that a distant delivery will always payoff big.

Some thinking is required, even at (prob'ly esp at) 0100.

Monk