Civilización IV: E3 USA

[Drakan]

Joer, tenemos nuestro propio probe team à la SMAC infiltrado en E3

Seguiremos de cerca tus progresos Alfonso (dicho con tono de voz del Senador Palpatine) ... que la fuerz -digo azafatas- te acompañen

[DrGerry]

Bueno, parece que finalmente se decidieron a hacer un mejor juego con gráficos feos, muy feos. Esos gigantes me sacan las ganas de jugar. De la tradicional desproporción (inevitable) del civ pasaron a un absurdo.

Al menos son menos feos que los gráficos del HoI.

@Drakan: Plis, hablá con tu psiquiatra sobre esa tendencia a postear la biblia en inglés

[Drakan]

Pero bueno Gerry, encima que me tomo la molestia de editar el texto y darle forma. Que no te creas que es copiar y pegar. Hrrrmpphhh !

[el mencey]

Me están empezando a agobiar las multiunidades.

[Harry]

Traduccioná, Drakan, que vos sos el traductor oficial del foro

[Chingasatt]

Pues pinta bonito el Civ IV
Lo del CapIII..nah..no se le compara al mejor capitulo de SW. Eso de "I´m your father" no tiene comparacion...ese m*therf*ck*r de Darth Vader si era villano memorable, y como no...en todos los carteles promocionales oficiales de SW sale el.
En fin, esperemos que el uncle Georgie cierre dignamente la saga despues de cagarla feo con los dos primeros capitulos. Y deje a los buenos directores hacer los siguientes capitulos.

[Kramsib]

Re: Civilización IV: E3 USA

Por partes

Originally posted by Drakan

http://pc.ign.com/articles/614/614551p1.html?fromint=1

IGNPC: Tell us about some of the new civs. I imagine we'll have the usual suspects from the European and Mediterranean sets but are there other, less obvious choices in store? Will we be seeing a return of the civ traits?

Barry Caudill: We will definitely have the usual major powers like France, Germany, England, America, China, Japan, etc. We will also be including many Civs that are either new or usually saved for expansions like the Incas or the Aztecs or the totally new Mali. In all there will be 18 Civs in the shipped version of Civilization 4.

Ok, hasta aquí, se van a cargar el micromanagement de las ciudades y tal, lo cual no me gusta un pelo, yo quiero seguir eligiendo donde carajo produzco.

Y bueno, lo de las 18 civs tampoco me gusta ná. Es como lo del multiplayer, nos cargarán a expansiones, ainss.

IGNPC: Culture was a pretty new concept when it was introduced in Civilization 3. Has that mechanic found its way into the sequel? Have there been any changes to it?

Barry Caudill: Yes, culture is alive and well in Civilization 4 but it has been tweaked a bit. One of the ways is somewhat mechanical in nature. In Civilization 3, you were always guaranteed a minimum level of cultural expansion when you planted a new city. That is not the case in Civilization 4. You will have to develop your culture or risk being enveloped by a larger neighbor. This leads to the interesting possibility of creating a Luxembourg or Switzerland completely engulfed by another Civ's borders. We also tweaked Civilization 3's luxury slider and turned it into a culture slider. Raising the culture level makes people happier and helps produce more culture for your entire Civ.

Esto me parece una soberana cagada, juntar churras con merinas, que me digan a mí que tienen que ver la slide de los luxuries con la cultura. ¿No sería más fácil asignar un nivel cultural de la ciudad según los edificios construidos?, me refiero, no a acumular puntos como hasta ahora, sino que por ejemplo, si una ciudad tiene 6 edificios , pues es una ciudad de nivel cultural 6.

IGNPC: One aspect of the cultural game in Civilization 3 that really aggravated players was the lack of respect the AI showed for your borders. Are you planning to address this issue at all?

Barry Caudill: In Civilization 4, the AI will have to respect your borders or declare war but you will be able to negotiate Open Borders to allow travel.

En otras palabras, que no lo han arreglado.

IGNPC: The resources concept from Civilization 3 was also great addition to the series. Are you expanding this system at all? Are you using it in the same way?

Barry Caudill: The system has been greatly expanded with the addition of many more resources, all of which are tradable. Some of the new resources, like marble, help to increase wonder production, some are food resources (these help with the overall health of your cities), and some, such as iron or copper, allow you to build certain types of units.

Aquel que vaticinó que el Civ se convertiría en un mapa lleno de caramelitos acertó.

IGNPC: I always seemed a bit miffed that you weren't able to trade food, even to your own cities. I mean it's not like the largest cities in the world are those that produce the most food, right? Are there considerations for trading and sharing food?

Barry Caudill: You will have the ability to trade food resources but these affect the overall health of your cities, not the growth potential.

Vuelvan a leerlo, se podrá comerciar comida, pero eso da dinero, no hace crecer las ciudades.

IGNPC: While we're on the subject of the previous game, were there any features from the last game that you felt the need to scale down or eliminate altogether?

Barry Caudill: We no longer have static eras so it's more like versions of Civilization prior to Civilization 3 in that respect. We eliminated armies but created more customization and countering with the units. We also changed the way bombardment units work in the game so they are now like a hybrid of previous games.

Aquí no tengo ninguna objeción, que hayan quitado los ejércitos y hayan hecho "mejoras" en las unidades me parece fenomenal, lo que siento gran curiosidad es cómo han cambiado el sistema de bombardeo, que hasta ahora, el que hay viene siendo el más lógico.

IGNPC: How do governments work this time around?

Barry Caudill: There are no set governments anymore. In Civilization 4, you can choose from various civics and combine them to make the type of government you want. For example, you may have a Theocratic Police State that also has Universal Suffrage or you may have a Pacifist Slave State with Hereditary Rule. The Civics are divided into five major areas - Government, Legal, Labor, Economy, and Religion - and each of those has 5 possible choices depending on what you have researched. In addition, AI leaders will have certain favorite Civics and they may ask you to either switch to theirs or stop using the one that offends them.

Miren, esto me ha gustado mucho y tengo mucha curiosidad por ver cómo queda implementado.

IGNPC: What about the new religion system? That sounds really promising. How does it work in the game?

Barry Caudill: The first Civilization to discover a technology attached to the founding of a religion will establish a holy city for that religion and it will begin to spread, although slowly. To speed up the process, you can create missionaries and send them out to try to convert other cities. Also, just like the Civics, AI leaders may try to get you to convert to their religion.

Ídem, tengo mucha curiosidad por ver qué resultado da en la partida.

Ahora bien, ¿¿¿¿ qué ocurre si soy el primer en descubrir techs asociadas a dos religiones distintas ????

¿Qué ocurre con Jerusalén que es la Ciudad Santa para varias religiones?

IGNPC: With as much depth and accuracy as there is in the Civilization franchise, there are some other general historical themes -- things like slavery, civil wars, epidemics, ideological conflicts, etc. -- that either weren't present or were heavily abstracted. Naturally, you have to remain extremely sensitive on some of these issues but are you planning to incorporate mechanics to highlight previously neglected historical phenomena?

Barry Caudill: Well we aren't trying to alienate anyone out there but we are paying more attention to some of the more serious issues where it makes sense. As I mentioned, slavery is a Civics option but so is emancipation. Epidemics aren't directly modeled but the idea of tying a city's health to available food and resources helps to simulate this. Ideological conflicts are a definite possibility as a result of the AI leader personalities and their ties to certain religions or civics.

Por las respuesta tan ambiguas (si pero no, no pero sí) me da la impresió de que no saben cómo modelizarlo o que ni siquiera tenían en mente implementarlo.

IGNPC: What can you tell us about great leaders?

Barry Caudill: We have expanded on this concept a great deal. Now, there are different types of great people like Great Prophets, Artists, and Scientists. When you get one, you will be able to use them for things like automatically researching a technology or helping to build a wonder.

Ok, estoy de acuerdo, pero espero ver al menos uno en una partida de, ... ¿6000 años?.

IGNPC: How does the overall combat system work? Will it still just be a one-on-one, winner take all affair? We hear that the individual units will have more specific uses. Can you explain?

Barry Caudill: Units will have strengths and weaknesses against other types of units. For instance, pikemen will have a decided advantage over mounted units and axemen will be especially good against melee units. We have also removed the idea of separate attack and defense values and replaced them with a single Power rating.

Esto ya me revienta, no tuvieron bastante con papearse los hit points y daños soportados que llegan a fundir puntos de ataque y defensa en uno, ¿y por qué ya no tirar dos números aleatorios y compararlos directamente?. El phalanx-battleship a la enésima potencia.

IGNPC: Are we going to see more units types this time around? What are some of the more notable additions?

Barry Caudill: During early prototyping, it was determined that more is not always better. In order to streamline the process as much as possible and to highlight the new promotion system, we decided to actually reduce the number of units some. Still, there are some units that haven't been part of previous versions like Grenadiers and Horse Archers and War Elephants that are not specific to only one Civ.

Aquí no digo nada, salvo que los tipos de unidades deben ser adecuados al tempo de la partida. Esto es, cada era de la historia debe disponer de unidades balanceadas, cada unidad con su contrapartida (ofensiva - defensiva y rápidas) y unidades especiales para romper la balanza.

IGNPC: Players of Alpha Centauri enjoyed the ability to tailor units for specific tasks. Are the units in Civilization 4 going to be adjustable in any way?

Barry Caudill: I think the promotions will add this type of customization in a much more fluid manner since the units are upgraded "on the fly" (i.e. with each new promotion) and you don't have to have researched a certain tech to gain access to them all. Some of the promotions include: jungle or forest bonuses, city defense, city raider, flanking, or just simple power bonuses. You will be able to make units that are specialized without changing all of a certain type and you can change "paths" as your situation dictates.

Muchas cosas nuevas, a ver que tal funcionan, me da que para unas cosas simplifican tanto como complican en otras,

IGNPC: How does the tech tree of the new game compare to that in previous versions? Are you sticking with specific trees for distinct eras? What are some of the new technologies or new technological considerations available?

Barry Caudill: There are two major changes from Civilization 3. First, there are no longer set eras and the player is free to choose any path whether it be all-military, all-science, balanced, etc. Second, you don't need all of the techs that lead to the one you want, you only need to connect to it. In previous versions you may have had to research two or three things to get access to the one they connect to.

Investigación más libre, me gusta como suena. Habrá que verlo sobre la marcha.

IGNPC: Tell us a little about the trade and economy systems? Any surprises there?

Barry Caudill: In Civilization 4, you get automatic trade routes after you establish a trade agreement with a particular leader. Also, rivers work like roads so two cities on the same river are connected even if no roads have been built.

Han optado por el sistema de CTP que no es un mal sistema, ¿¿¿¿habrá piratería de rutas????

IGNPC: Maybe I'm sick but I really miss being able to poison a rival city's water supply. Are you going to be including new options for espionage and its more "honorable" cousin diplomacy?

Barry Caudill: We will not be including any espionage options that are terrorism related. You will, however, create spy units and move them around as you did in previous versions of Civilization. In diplomacy, you will be able to broker peace between two warring Civs or ask a Civ to go to war with another even if you are not currently at war with that Civ.

Lo de lo políticamente correcto es una chufa, pero espero que se pueda editar

¡¡¡ Por fin se vuelve a la cordura en este aspecto !!!!, unidades espía que hay que infiltrar y la vuelta de opciones de diplomacia perdidas.

IGNPC: There's no denying that the pace of Civilization slows down once you start to hit century or so, yet the early ancient age just seems to fly by. Are you doing anything to smooth out the overall pace of the game or give players the chance to chew off a more manageable bite?

Barry Caudill: Balancing is always high on our priority list and we are definitely working to even out the pace of the game. One new thing is that you can choose different game speeds depending on your preference and available time. You can choose Quick, Normal, or Epic. Normal would be like a standard game of Civilization in previous versions. Quick and Epic are scaled in every aspect to provide the full experience of Civilization in either a quicker or much longer format.

Algo realmente interesante, , tengo ganas de probarlo.

IGNPC: Though Civilization 3 was great, it lost some of the presentation that we loved in Civilization 2. While it might be naive to ask for a return to talking advisors and wonder videos, are you doing anything to add to the overall personality of the game?

Barry Caudill: We have definitely ramped up the production values in this version. The new 3D world and all that it brings will certainly up the ante over any previous version of the game, we're hiring voice talent for various parts, and I am happy to announce the return of wonder movies...we'll have over 45 spectacular movies in the game.

Si esto está de verdad de vuelta, lo agradeceré mucho porque era algo que visualmente me agradaba verlo. Pero no sólo los videos de maravillas, espero que se monten algunas animaciones de conquista y tal, ¡¡¡ cómo en Civ I !!!

IGNPC: Are you planning to include multiplayer options out of the box? What types of things can we expect from the multiplayer game? We hear there's a cooperative mode? How does that work?

Barry Caudill: You bet! This game was designed to be multiplayer from the ground up and we have been playing MP games for a year and a half already. Players will be able to compete in traditional turn-based or simultaneous move games either on a network or via the Internet. We will be using Gamespy for Internet matchmaking. Other options include Hot Seat, Play by Email, and a persistent turn server we call Pitboss.
Coop will work in a similar fashion to what you would expect from an RTS like Age of Kings or Warcraft 3. Players on the same team will share line of site, the benefits of wonders, research (they can even research the same thing to try to get it faster), unit trading, and share territory. All of these additions deliver a plethora of new strategic and tactical options to the players.

En este aspecto PLIM, mientras encuentre el modo de adaptarlo al Progressive

IGNPC: The core game's great but Civilization's also done well thanks to massive community support. What types of tools and editors can players expect out of the box?

Barry Caudill: Civilization 4 will be the most moddable version of Civilization ever. Players can edit basic stats and attributes in XML files. On a higher level, much of the game will be exposed to Python so modders will be able to edit events and have more control over how the game works. On an even higher level, we are planning to provide an AI SDK to allow experienced programmers to dig very deep into customization.

Espero que sea verdad.

IGNPC: Finally, where's my Colonization 2? I mean, what have you guys been doing for the last ten years?

Barry Caudill: You're right, we have been slacking off. I mean, Firaxis has only shipped 10 titles in the last 9 years. Actually, we get lots of requests to make another Colonization. We don't have any plans to do it right now, but it's certainly something to consider for the future. Stay tuned...

Prometedor... pero espero que, por favor, hagan algo decente Y POR TURNOS.

[Zcylen]

Originally posted by Chingasatt

En fin, esperemos que el uncle Georgie cierre dignamente la saga despues de cagarla feo con los dos primeros capitulos. Y deje a los buenos directores hacer los siguientes capitulos.

si me lo pidio, pero desgraciadamente yo estaba saturado de trabajo y tuve que declinar la oferta




una pequeña anecdota referente al "Im your father"
en el guion original que GEorge Lucas les dio a los actores de esa pelicula esa linea no existia, decia "I killed your father" pero en el momento que la iban a grabar Lucas hablo con el director y el actor para decirles de ese pequeño secreto, todos dentro del set se quedaro WTF!!!!
desde mi punto de vista eso es una genialidad de Lucas

[Alfonso]

A mi no me ha gustado, estoy un poco desilusionado, creo que firaxis ha inventado los graficos 2d3d, vamos, que el motor sera una pasada, pero la calidad es como el culo de mala.

EL juego en funcionamiento parece una mezcla entre Rome y pirates, pero mu raro.

Me parece que meier no conoce lo que es un acantilado ni por asomo.

No se, me volvere a pasar, pero esta todo muy raro, creo que voy a decir que noi me gusta nada.

Las unidades no estan desproporcionadas, estan desproporcionadisimas.



EDIT: Esta fue una primera opinion que ya no comparto para nada: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...12#post3804844

[Alfonso]

La interfaz de juego, que lo olvidaba, parece de los lunis.

Lo unico que se salva son algunas novedades en lo que al gobierno se refiere.

EDIT: Lo de la interfaz lo siguo pensando

[DrGerry]

¿Qué son los lunis?

[Alfonso]

un programa infantil como los teletabis

[Gigante Verde]

Desde un principio lo venia diciendo: Las unidades no me gustan asi de desproporcionadas como estan, es cierto que en Civ3 tambien lo estan, pero al menos el modelado 2D lo disimula un poco mas Seamos claros, cuando nos presentan imagenes en 3D esperamos mas realismo y por lo tanto, la desproporcion de las unidades es inaceptable

Ahora tu tambien Kramsib?! Acaso no es suficiente con que Drakkan saque la version original Reina Valera de la biblia... me uno a la peticion de GD y te incluyo en ella, vayan a ver un siquiatra!

Bonita doble lectura de ingles que se mandaron los dos Creo de esta si que termino aprendiendo lo que me falta de ingles

[Gigante Verde]

Increible?! Me puse a leer toda la entrevista y al final cuando quiero hacer post, veo que tengo que entrar de nuevo por el tiempo que me tome para leer...

No esta mal la entrevista, pero la siguiente vez Drakkan, ponla en español

Critica: estoy de acuerdo con eso de las barritas de progreso cuando se hace una mejora en una ciudad, me da la impresion de que voy a jugar a Age Of Empires con esas barritas y se supone que Civ4 es un juego por turnos

Sobre lo de los espias, estoy de acuerdo contigo Kramsib, habra que esperar a que salga el juego para hacerle modificaciones que permitan usarlos al "maximo de su potencial"

Tambien eso de que fusionaron los puntos de ataque y defensa, vuelvo a repetirlo: me da la impresion de que voy a jugar a Age Of Empires

Al menos, como yo quiero la version en español, eso me dara tiempo a esperar a que salga la primera expansion

[Chilean President™]

No tengo tiempo pa leer, pero las imagenes vistas aqui y en MZO muestran un juego bonito