Aegean Team Game: Thread #2

[sabrewolf]

game is up but uploader is down

[Wittlich]

Confirmed. Provi and myself having now already played - everyone else needs to still make an enterance.

[snoopy369]

Indeed, the civstats server must have hiccuped, at least for warlords games; my warlords game civstats crashed, not my BtS. Weird.

[GeoModder]

Played. A little less then 9 hours as I post this before the new turn starts.

[dacole]

Originally posted by Andydog


Thanks Beta, I already tried following those instructions and sent a PM twice but nothing seemed to happen. I'll try PM-ing Dacole my preferred password for a third time.

I tried to PM you but your box is evidently full. There was a password already there that I think was what you had suggested I use before (it was very Spanish in origin). If you clean out your pm box I can send it to you.

[BigFree]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Played. A little less then 9 hours as I post this before the new turn starts.

Yes, I can see you did. Another fine double move made by GEO. And especially nice since you were attacking by sea.

Geo, why must you cheat?

You could see that Civstats was down and therefore it did not let people know the new turn was up. You went ahead and made your double move regardless.

Simply put, you are pathetic.

I refuse to play in a game with a known cheat. It was not an accident. He knew exactly what he was doing, hence the post about his playing with "only" 9 hours on the clock. He gave himself that timely excuse for double moving.

[Andydog]

This does not look good Geo. Please explain yourself.

[GeoModder]

This again?

The bozo already played as far as my info goes. I saw at least 3 units (longbows) on locations which weren't there the turn before, and I think he on purpose didn't press "end turn" to have a reason to make a fuss. He simply can't take his losses.

Bigfree, you're a bloody cheat yourself, so bugger off with your stupid accusations. I played a day after my previous turn and I sure won't wait until you deemed it fit to press end turn with the chance of losing a turn again.

Those 3 longbows prove he made moves after I played the previous turn, because they weren't there at the moment I played. So even if there's no * (indicating his turn has ended) after his civname I can only assume he did play, simply didn't end his turn. Oh, and before you come up with "2 are new production" they weren't flashing promo-blue as far as I could see, and Thebes had only 1-2 turns before finished another longbow, so that would be short time for another unit to be finished.

[BigFree]

Go ahead and make your excuses. You have cheated before and as far as I'm concerened you will continue to do so.

With that said, I'm not about to go through the same hassle that I went through before with you. I will not play with you. You had your chance to play fairly, you screwed it up, again. You always try to justify your double moves; good for you. Defend to the death is your motto. LOL

So, folks, I quit this game. I play for fun. Playing with a cheat is not fun.

I suggest you folks find a game without Geo in it.

Thanks for running the game dacole. I hope to play with you soon again.

[GeoModder]

Good riddance. You never could take your loss, that's something you proved for sure.
In my book, you're the cheat here. You never could prove a bloody thing. The only thing you did was making a ruckus whenever things didn't went your way.

[Beta]

Geo - I have looked at the civstats log - and it is pretty clear that you were the last to play on the previous turn, and then played before BigFree on the next turn. Also - there is no indication of BF logging in and playing and yet not finishing his turn. Civstats would show that.

Either your info is wrong about his units - or they were on auto move - which is another explanation. But either way, double moving during a war, particularly to gain a tactical advantage is a definite no-no.

I can also say that I have played in numerous games with BF over the years - and never known him to bend or break the rules in any way. He can also take his lumps/losses in games like the rest of us.

I am not outright accussing you - just not sure you fully appreciate the significance - and therefore the avoidance - of double moves during war.

I understand and can see that you waited the full day to play - but that in itself is not a justification. Civstats had a hiccup - which you may or may not known about. But often you have to wait longer than 24 hours to play - even with a turn timer of 24 hours. And this sometimes means emailing or pm'ing the foe to see when they are going to play or to encourage them to do so - because you need to go to bed or work or the like. I have done that before in other games. Ask snoop - Apolyton Gathering, Zargon X - Test of Time, provi - Lord Of Empereors. That is just the reality of the pitboss. It is not perfect, so we need to 'manage' it a bit to make it work and to be fair.

Hope this helps.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Beta
Geo - I have looked at the civstats log - and it is pretty clear that you were the last to play on the previous turn, and then played before BigFree on the next turn. Also - there is no indication of BF logging in and playing and yet not finishing his turn. Civstats would show that.

Either your info is wrong about his units - or they were on auto move - which is another explanation. But either way, double moving during a war, particularly to gain a tactical advantage is a definite no-no.

I can also say that I have played in numerous games with BF over the years - and never known him to bend or break the rules in any way. He can also take his lumps/losses in games like the rest of us.

I am not outright accussing you - just not sure you fully appreciate the significance - and therefore the avoidance - of double moves during war.

I understand and can see that you waited the full day to play - but that in itself is not a justification. Civstats had a hiccup - which you may or may not known about. But often you have to wait longer than 24 hours to play - even with a turn timer of 24 hours. And this sometimes means emailing or pm'ing the foe to see when they are going to play or to encourage them to do so - because you need to go to bed or work or the like. I have done that before in other games. Ask snoop - Apolyton Gathering, Zargon X - Test of Time, provi - Lord Of Empereors. That is just the reality of the pitboss. It is not perfect, so we need to 'manage' it a bit to make it work and to be fair.

Hope this helps.

Beta, there was a gap of 22 hours in which nothing was logged while the turn could be played. At least, I could play during this period so I assume anybody else could.
IF those 3 longbows weren't on automove or just finished from production he had opportunity to move them himself. Further more, since the last time he accused me, I noticed a few turns he didn't end his turn while I could clearly see units had been moved around in response to my moves.
In any case, the appearance of 2 of those longbows in cities I kept an eye on as target made my assault more iffy, not less, simply because they were a harder nut to crack then. So I went for a target that was better defended then expected, not less. The odds were a bit better on Bigfree's side. My second attack on a lone axeman was even more in his favour. It sat on a jungle hill and had a woodsman promotion. He couldn't have moved that unit to a better spot even if he wanted to. And I fully expected to lose that attack, that I would need to use a second unit to take the axe out.
As far as my intel goes, he couldn't have brought in more reinforcements in the target cities if he wanted to. The cavalry units I had tabs on were on the other side of his empire chasing my units there.
So in short, I don't think I could have taken a 'tactical advantage'. If anything, if he indeed hadn't moved a single unit yet, chances were he would have moved unit(s) out of the targets I kept an eye on, making my assault easier. Besides, even if he had moved an extra unit in, there's one unit I hadn't used in the city attack.
Now let him answer this question: Could he have moved extra units in the target city? If not, his accusation is a like a leaking windbag.
You talked about keeping in contact. Why should I? In my book he's not to be trusted. He's the one making accusations time after time. You think I want to stay civil with such an annoying person?

[Beta]

Ok Geo. Let me try again.

Originally posted by GeoModder
Beta, there was a gap of 22 hours in which nothing was logged while the turn could be played. At least, I could play during this period so I assume anybody else could.

As I was trying to explain above, the length of time you have allowed for a turn is by itself, still NOT a justification for a double move during a war. Particularly when civstats was doing weird things.

IF those 3 longbows weren't on automove or just finished from production he had opportunity to move them himself. Further more, since the last time he accused me, I noticed a few turns he didn't end his turn while I could clearly see units had been moved around in response to my moves.

I am not sure what you are getting at here. If you log in and log out without ending your turn - civstats picks that up. And if it is done in proper sequence with the other player - all is fine. In otherwords, you play first and complete your turn. Then BF plays. He plays but does not complete his turn, but comes in 2 hours later and completes it. It happens.

However, if what was happending was a player making a partial move, NOT ending the turn, and then coming back AFTER you had played to finish your turn, then there is something to complain about. But I can't see BF using this tactic. It is pretty cheesy, and few if any established players resort to that, from what I can tell.

In any case, the appearance of 2 of those longbows in cities I kept an eye on as target made my assault more iffy, not less, simply because they were a harder nut to crack then. So I went for a target that was better defended then expected, not less. The odds were a bit better on Bigfree's side. My second attack on a lone axeman was even more in his favour. It sat on a jungle hill and had a woodsman promotion. He couldn't have moved that unit to a better spot even if he wanted to. And I fully expected to lose that attack, that I would need to use a second unit to take the axe out.
As far as my intel goes, he couldn't have brought in more reinforcements in the target cities if he wanted to. The cavalry units I had tabs on were on the other side of his empire chasing my units there.
So in short, I don't think I could have taken a 'tactical advantage'. If anything, if he indeed hadn't moved a single unit yet, chances were he would have moved unit(s) out of the targets I kept an eye on, making my assault easier. Besides, even if he had moved an extra unit in, there's one unit I hadn't used in the city attack.

What you have discussed here is strategy and the pros and cons of various options. That is much different than the mechanics we use to play the game, and what we are talking about here.

Now let him answer this question: Could he have moved extra units in the target city? If not, his accusation is a like a leaking windbag.

Again, this is irrelevant. If he could NOT, then it would seem that you would have to been able to capture the city just as easily without using a double move. His accusation is that you used a double move to (I presume from what you have said) capture a city, nothing more or less.

You talked about keeping in contact. Why should I? In my book he's not to be trusted. He's the one making accusations time after time. You think I want to stay civil with such an annoying person?

Geo - I have known BF for quite awhile now, and IMHO, he can be trusted. Yes he has been known to have a short fuse (ie short temper), but he would not make such accusations lightly. That I also know.

The issue of staying in touch was to ensure that, when necessary during a war, a proper playing order is maintained to avoid exactly the kind of issue we have here.

So, put quite simply, and please Geo, correct me if I am wrong here because I am simply going by what I can see from the civstats log - and there is clearly a hiccup in it as waaay too much happened at 1:06 pm on the 9th, but ....

.... it would appear that you were last to finish your 1140ad turn, and played before Big Free on the 1150d turn. And during those two turns you used a sea invasion to capture a city. By the guidelines most pitboss games are played by, that is unacceptable.

If I am wrong - please let me know where. I will stand corrected . If I am correct, but you still do not see what the problem is, then I will continue the discussion to try and help.

OK?

[proviisori]

Can't connect to the game

[Beta]

Not sure whether dacole has brought the game down in light of the recent discussion, or whether it was unintended.