Rommels Regret

[Rommel2D]

Does that mean you've supplied GSB with the turn?
[whoops, CP ]

[Shogun Gunner]

ordinarly I'm at work at this time, but my daughter had school cancelled because of the ice and yesterday my wife stayed home to be with the girls, today it's my turn to do so.

[Golden Bear]

So if I get out early from work we can crank through some turns? At least for the dazzling new PvPV?

[Golden Bear]

Originally posted by conmcb25


You REALLY should get with snoopdog and volunteer to be a traveling minstrel for the CIV IV demo. As a member of the admin team. You can publish the history of the game thru your chronicles, and do some admin stuff for the game, like coming up with news items for MarkG.

That way you could participate, yet stay detached and do what you do magnificently well, which is write.

You should really and truely think about that. You don't have to put up with the emotional his and lows of a team, but you can do what you like, and thats write about it.

I have thought about requesting this, con. However, I see a couple of difficulties. The first is that not many of the participants know me. Thus, they might be wary of letting me have access to all the forums.

Second, and more important, is that I would need to be very, very careful about what I wrote. As you well know, people in Demo games tend to be ultrasensitive about all matters, and any tiny leak of information that was not earned would be a cause for anger at this scribe. At least if I am a member of only one team, then I can only p-off only that one group. Hmm, somebody on another team got p'd-off at me, didn't they?

Anyway, if you can think of a solution to point #2, that role would suit me fine... and if you can think of how to persuade your fellows that it is a good idea.

[Golden Bear]

3800 to Rommel

[Rommel2D]

3800

Continued...


Wow, either my memory sucks, or I've been duped into some Hollywood version along the way...

I thought the NA campaign failed mostly due to Hitler insisting on wasting huge amounts of resources on other fronts (bombing England?). I also thought Rommel participated in the assassination plot. Did Hitler have him killed for not turning in the conspriators?

Didn't Rommel continue to think of himself as a Nazi though, that Hitler's meglomania and obsession with genocide were something seperate?

[Shogun Gunner]

Well, the bombing of England really didn't affect the allocation of resources to North Africa. It was the preparation for the invasion of Russia that kept units and supplies away from North Africa.

Hitler did kill Rommel, but it was done differently that some of the other conspirators. Rommel was encouraged to kill himself and was supplied poison to do the job. Rommel complied knowing that if he didn't, it would be a bullet in the head anyway.

I don't think Rommel did think of himself as a Nazi, but rather a German patriot. His tendency was to be very loyal - so I don't think there are many writings of his that openly speak out against Hitler or Nazi politics. Like many German generals, he tried to keep himself seperate from the political aspects of the regime.

[Golden Bear]

That was the game that the soldiers of the Reich played. However, when they swore allegience to Hitler as a person rather than to Germany as they had been wont, they perfectly well knew what the implications were.

A fine case can be made that there were plenty of resources for Rommel if he had made use of them. There is also a counter image of him as the unpleasant task master rather than the beloved leader - the latter image derived of course only from Nazi films because there were no other sources.

Tobruk was a key to his success but he never granted it the status that it needed. What would have been the consequence if he had truly besieged it so that he had supplies near the front early in the war?

It is difficult to question images that we have internalized over life. However, there is sufficient information to illustrate the fatal weaknesses of Rommel. This does not detract from his role or accomplishments as a military person but, to my mind, enhances them, because we can now fit him in as a real person rather than an icon or superhuman.

I still recommend looking to some of the newer texts on the war and to taking them seriously if people want to try to understand some of the happenings in depth rather than in the post-WWII iconology that we grew up with. It is worth the effort to question these images.

We might actually admire the accomplishments more and understand the real person more at the same time.

I seem to be the only dissenting note in the Rommel adoration around here, which causes me to want to let you folks enjoy your love fest. I have pointed the way to a different understanding; not better. Just a different one. Perhaps before parading commonly held notions it would be worth the time to consider something new and different?

This ground has been covered a lot and has been built up to portray IR as a noble warrior caught between loyalties. Real life is more complicated than that and people rarely are that noble (Lincoln?).

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Golden Bear
So if I get out early from work we can crank through some turns?

So much for that. (I think this game got constipated...)

Does Blood, Tears, Folly cover actual logistics of the campaign in detail?

[Golden Bear]

Nope, sorry. Not much detail. It is a more general look with dives into detail. I found a lot to think about from Deighton's writings. Of course, he is no more "right" than anybody else but I give many of his arguments credence. The book is worth a look and is a good read.

He is widely discredited by people who "know" more than he does. Facts are facts however and he makes some good cases. Have a look!

[Shogun Gunner]

I might change my username to Heinz Guderian... he was an icon, a legend... a man caught between two loyalties.

or maybe Guderian2D for the username

[Rommel2D]

I've never played Guderian3D- what system was it for?

[conmcb25]

3800 to SSG, more commentary from me later on all the above issues.

The short answer to number 2 GB is that easrly in the game you wouldn't have a lot to "release" but you could have a lot to "do".

Once contact between all members has been made then you can start releasing.

Or the early stuff has to be heavily censored.

Its up to you.

And a clear definition of insanity is trying to please everyone at Apoly. If someone doesn't like your writing fvck em, because they are probably an idiot anyway

[Golden Bear]

Originally posted by conmcb25
And a clear definition of insanity is trying to please everyone at Apoly. If someone doesn't like your writing fvck em, because they are probably an idiot anyway

This is a classic. It must go into the HOF of con quotes! Nicely stated, btw.

[Shogun Gunner]

3760 to Golden Bear.