Game I [Evalds Urtans]

[Dog1]

As I understood it, it is 18 hrs in this case, (half the turn time (36hrs)) from the start of the next turn.

From the start of the next turn. Of course.

Reload if you wish but it will make absolutely no difference. You offered a cease fire agreement last turn and since your horse archer ran away, I have agreed to the cease fire so unless you have changed your mind the war is over for now.

My units are all in my own territory and you have no units that could have possibly even attacked any of my cities or units therefore even if the war continues the turn order made no difference this round. You can maintain the first half of the turn if you want to keep the war going.

Okay.
As long as peace treaty is not signed (you could not sign it because I didnt offered it to you... ? - what exactly did you signed? ) the war is still going on (my civ on your screen says "war", right?). Thus its a double move. I stated my peace of mind. Its up to Evalds if he restarts or not. I can not (nor wish to) change Evalds's rules (or wishes from the majority) but I can pick my game.

[Exploit]

Ok now I understand as far as I know there is no rules in the game against it, what others think about it?

I could find no rules for this game other then the settings annotations near the beginning of this thread.

It is fairly common to outlaw double moves to make the game go smoothly (if you don't then the game drags as players wait to the last minute to play so that they can play when the turn rolls over and surprise attack with a double move). I believe this is a good general rule and believe it is sufficient to just ask players to make a good faith effort to avoid double moves. (Based upon previous experiences attempts to precisely define double move rules generally end up making the matter worse as players have a tendency to use rules loopholes to get double moves legally).

There was absolutely no advantage from my double move. I logged in expecting the war to be over, then realized that Dog1 had not accepted the cease fire yet because he hadn't played. There were no enemy units anywhere within range of any of my units or cities so I finished my turn to keep the game moving on.

[Exploit]

As long as peace treaty is not signed (you could not sign it because I didnt offered it to you... ? - what exactly did you signed? ) the war is still going on (my civ on your screen says "war", right?). Thus its a double move. I stated my peace of mind. Its up to Evalds if he restarts or not. I can not (nor wish to) change Evalds's rules (or wishes from the majority) but I can pick my game.

I accept that it is my bad for not waiting until you made your move. Regardless of whether it is an official rule or not, I prefer to avoid double moves so I can promise it will never happen again.

You haven't even logged into the game to see what moves were made (if you did you would see that absolutely nothing would change regardless of who went first this turn). Instead of demanding a reload on general principle, why not just login and see for yourself so that we can keep the game moving?

Hey you will get a double move as a result of this so feel free to even take advantage of that by launching a blitz attack if you want.

[trev]

While in war try to do your move 24 hours apart at the same time each day, for most people this should be possible, ie just before bedtime or just home from work, or just after rising in the morning, whatever time best suits, if you have gone 24 hours before the last move AND the clock is more than 12 hours gone ( using this last critieria means that if necessary a day can be missed if someone has moved slow or not moved and previous turn took full 36 hours).
If people generally do this there should not be problems with double moves.

[Dog1]

I could find no rules for this game other then the settings annotations near the beginning of this thread.

It is fairly common to outlaw double moves to make the game go smoothly (if you don't then the game drags as players wait to the last minute to play so that they can play when the turn rolls over and surprise attack with a double move). I believe this is a good general rule and believe it is sufficient to just ask players to make a good faith effort to avoid double moves. (Based upon previous experiences attempts to precisely define double move rules generally end up making the matter worse as players have a tendency to use rules loopholes to get double moves legally).

There was absolutely no advantage from my double move. I logged in expecting the war to be over, then realized that Dog1 had not accepted the cease fire yet because he hadn't played. There were no enemy units anywhere within range of any of my units or cities so I finished my turn to keep the game moving on.

You maybe didnt destroyed any of my units, but your units are now closer to the frontlines then they should of been. You used that extra move for maneuver, production, positioning, ect. Not that it has any immediate deadly impact on me, but on the longer term.
Cool nickname.

While in war try to do your move 24 hours apart at the same time each day, for most people this should be possible, ie just before bedtime or just home from work, or just after rising in the morning, whatever time best suits, if you have gone 24 hours before the last move AND the clock is more than 12 hours gone ( using this last critieria means that if necessary a day can be missed if someone has moved slow or not moved and previous turn took full 36 hours).
If people generally do this there should not be problems with double moves.

Sometimes people do not follow those guidelines and they double move. Thus the double move rule which may or may not be enforced in a particular game. If you ask me, that rule was invented for a reason.

[ricketyclik]

Dog1, email Evalds, he often doesn't check this thread.

[Exploit]

You maybe didnt destroyed any of my units, but your units are now closer to the frontlines then they should of been. You used that extra move for maneuver, production, positioning, ect. Not that it has any immediate deadly impact on me, but on the longer term.

Six units were moved as part of my move. Five of which are moving from one city to another way behind the frontlines and none of which moved into a frontline city. The sixth unit that moved is the spearman which your horse archer ran away from. Last turn he moved back towards my lands, there were no enemy units within 3 tiles of him (all of which are visible to me) and there are no roads in the area so there was no way you could have attacked him this turn. The spearman moved AWAY from the frontlines this turn.

Unless you were going to attack one of my units or cities this turn (which is impossible since you have no units in range), it is absolutely impossible for me to gain any maneuver, production, positioning or other advantage short term or long term. My units are in the exact same position that they would have been if you moved first this turn and you will get to move first next turn so the turn order is reset to the original.

BTW, in most MP pitboss games it is allowed to move units not directly involved in a theater of war outside of the turn order during a war so all of the unit moves that I made except for arguably the spearman would be legal in most pitboss games. The spearman moved NW last turn and then NW again. Unless that second NW move happening before you got to move somehow adversely affects your plans then you are arguing over something that is irrelevant.

As I said earlier, I do not care if we reload or not since either option will result in the same positions. My goal is to simply get the game moving again.

[Dog1]

Dog1, email Evalds, he often doesn't check this thread.

I did emailed him, and then he joined the thread, asking you guys to make a decision. Im aware of the situation so Ill contact him again.

[Dog1]

double post

[Dog1]

Six units were moved as part of my move. Five of which are moving from one city to another way behind the frontlines and none of which moved into a frontline city. The sixth unit that moved is the spearman which your horse archer ran away from. Last turn he moved back towards my lands, there were no enemy units within 3 tiles of him (all of which are visible to me) and there are no roads in the area so there was no way you could have attacked him this turn. The spearman moved AWAY from the frontlines this turn.

Unless you were going to attack one of my units or cities this turn (which is impossible since you have no units in range), it is absolutely impossible for me to gain any maneuver, production, positioning or other advantage short term or long term. My units are in the exact same position that they would have been if you moved first this turn and you will get to move first next turn so the turn order is reset to the original.

BTW, in most MP pitboss games it is allowed to move units not directly involved in a theater of war outside of the turn order during a war so all of the unit moves that I made except for arguably the spearman would be legal in most pitboss games. The spearman moved NW last turn and then NW again. Unless that second NW move happening before you got to move somehow adversely affects your plans then you are arguing over something that is irrelevant.

As I said earlier, I do not care if we reload or not since either option will result in the same positions. My goal is to simply get the game moving again.

Double move during a war is subject to a double move rule (if applied, of course).
I didnt get you clearly, (above other things you mentioned in your earlier posts) are you saying that my objection to your double move is irrelevant?

[Exploit]

Ok now I understand as far as I know there is no rules in the game against it, what others think about it?

Ok there are no rules that cover dispute resolution and Evalds has asked for opinions so to get the game moving again let's hold a quick vote on whether to reload to before my last move. There are 9 players so if we get 5 votes for Reload or No Reload then the matter should be settled.

(Note: Because there was only 1 hour left on the turn timer, I paused the game).

My vote is to Reload.

[EvaldsUrtans]

Ok, I have restarted 350BC turn, please respect others & do not move twice in row when you are at war with someone.

[Exploit]

Kaleb, Wittlich and Zorzak even though civstats is showing your moves as having been completed, in the game your turn has not been completed. Your last moves were lost with the reload.

I paused the game with 2 hours to play to give you a chance to redo your moves.

[Wittlich]

Oh, that's why it was paused....ok, let me go back in and repause it again for Kaleb and Zorzak.

[Kaleb]

I've done my turn and paused it for Zorzak. has anyone let him know?

I only knew I needed to do my turn because Exploit send me a pm