Teach me!

[alexman]

All of the above seem very reasonable to me.

[Rommel2D]

Any chance of a coded solution to this in a future version of CIV PTBS?

[snoopy369]

That's give or take what most other PTBSs have played by, so fine by me.

Rommel I don't think an 8 hour hard and fast double move protection would be valuable coded in; not only does it slow the game down when there's not a war if you have only one player who always plays at 24 hour intervals, preventing him from playing 2 moves is annoying. Further, there are times where the window may not be makeable (say, working a double shift, or travelling). Doing it on the honor system works well enough in my opinion, and is safer for all involved.

[Rommel2D]

I was thinking more along the lines of modifying the already coded MP double move protection (is the 8? second rule present in PiTBoSs?) into a variable amount on the PTBS setup screen. Could be 0 min, could be 30 min, could be 480 min. (And for people who can only make a small window, don't the units take orders as soon as the turn starts and then move as soon as the freeze period expires?)

Ideally it would be tweaked to only engage for Civs at or declaring war, or maybe even units in enemy territory or x tiles away from it - but then we're talking about a more radical coding project...

Then again, there's my original theory that sequential turns is the only way to have a pure, competitive Civ game.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Blake
Turns out I assumed we were playing no double moves (and it's what I've observed), and Gyathaar assumed everyone was using them. This incident was resolved satisfactorily.

We did touch the problem of double moves in this game (see here), but we have indeed never formalized anything...

Originally posted by Blake
So i figure hey, why not just formalize?

This is what I propose:
1) End your turn (In Teach Alexman, do as Alexman does, capiche?), in the interest of having the game move faster and in "shuffling" the new turn around such that it doesn't get stuck in the middle of someones night, and also so it can't be predicted (setting an alarm is lame strategy :P).
2) Make a good faith effort to leave at least 8 hours (preferably 12) between major strategic movements on successive turns. This is important so that people feel safe doing #1, without needing to "preempt" double moves by delaying their end turn. This also eliminates the advantage of being "credibly indecisive" about committing to an attack - if you only commit at the last minute, wait 8 hours! (If your end turn starts the new turn, you can set your builds and move your workers around the core, but if you just moved a massive stack up to another players' city, wait a while eh?)

Anyone have a problem with following that simple conduct, or a better suggestion? (I think most people are doing it anyway, but why not formalize)
(CivStats is good enough enforcement in that it makes some things pretty blatant or at least highly suspicious looking)

... and I'm definitely fine with this and will do my best to avoid playing double moves (means I will never plan for them and will do my best to not do them accidentally).

(although me not ending turns right away has much more to do with the need to coordinate my turns with Nolan than with planning for or defending against double moves...)

I would suggest one more addition/clarification to the rules:

3) As soon as your opponent logs in and spends at least like, dunno, 30 minutes (?) in the game (or even logs out again), you are free to move your units whatever you like.

I guess it's sort of obvious, but anyway... as soon as your opponent has had a reasonable chance to respond to the first part of your "double move", it's a free game.

[Blake]

Yeah Vondrack I actually quoted your post in a PM to Gyathaar for the code of conduct I was following .

3) As soon as your opponent logs in and spends at least like, dunno, 30 minutes (?) in the game (or even logs out again), you are free to move your units whatever you like.

I guess it's sort of obvious, but anyway... as soon as your opponent has had a reasonable chance to respond to the first part of your "double move", it's a free game.

Part 2 is only applicable to moves made on *Different turns*, you can move a unit in the same turn as many times as you like, until it runs out of movement. Once there's a new turn, don't move it unless it's been 8 (perferably 12) hours since it's last move.

"If you're going to make a major offensive: Just do it."
While you could for example log in, play your turn, end your turn. Wait for your victim to play their turn end turn and log out, then you log back in and THEN move your units into their territory in the hope they don't have time to log in AGAIN... I think there's something wrong with that. Always make a good faith effort to allow enemies to respond STRATEGICALLY to your moves, particularly offensive moves. Wherever possible, moving twice between two of an opponents moves should be avoided - because it is a double move, just not necessarily a blatantly engineered one. If delaying an offensive move (ie to until after they've played) might lead to a double move, try to avoid that.

[vondrack]

Yeah, sorry, I wanted to clarify something and ended up just adding confusion to it. What I had in mind was that:

1630AD: I move my invasion stack next to your city, ending the turn as the last player
1640AD: few minutes later, you log in, play some, for whatever reason ignore my stack, and log out (doesn't matter if you ended your turn or not)

...then I am free to attack the city, even though it's, say, just an hour since I made the first part of my two-part manoeuver - because you have had reasonable chance to prevent the two-part manoeuver (technically, it's no longer a double move, I guess).

As I said, I believe it's obvious, but I put it in a way that just added confusion - sorry for that.

[alexman]

Hey guys, I just found out that I will be away from Friday to Tuesday. Would you mind if we stopped the game during that time? I don't want to miss all the action...

[vondrack]

np with me

I may finally get some sleep then...

[Blake]

I would like to thank Alexman for having the decency of not razing my city. I also send Alexman my condolences for his army.

[alexman]

Nice! I didn't expect that!

[Solver]

So which one of you two is kicking more ass presently?

[snoopy369]

When you bring it back up please make sure that plenty of time is left on the clock ... I play my turns in the evening so if you bring it up with 12 hours left at 8am, I probably end up missing a turn

[Blake]

Originally posted by Solver
So which one of you two is kicking more ass presently?

It's not so much that Alexman isn't kicking ass - it's that he's doing a lot more damage to his foot than the ass. Ask about Battle for Birka, Round One. It was hilarious.

Oh yah. And I just completed the Pentagon.

[vondrack]

My foot is quite fine so far, thank you... although my ass hurts some.