Lizzy's rise to greatness

[Dinner]

I'm glad we've recently built a few workers as that is a step in the right direction but that said we currently have 10 workers and 14 cities plus there is the barbarian city we will be taking over soon while we have identified 10 additional city sites which we would like to build. Just about everyone else has filled out their cities and developed their tiles more. I would like to see almost no slaving for a while and instead our priorities should be having existing cities grow to the happiness cap, building workers so that we have 1.5 per city (as of right now we should have 21 workers instead of just 10), and settling those 10 city locations to really fill out our civ. I would like to see that happen before any wars of conquest if possible. I also noticed we currently have two missionaries, that is good, but we will need more, 3-4 to finish converting our existing cities, 1 for the barbarian city, and 10 additional for the new cities we really need to plant. Let's slow down the other stuff and make that our priority while using the remainder of our time to add some military units.

[mzprox]

I'm almost sure the barb city is building a worker or it would had grown by now..I estimate it needs about 7-8 more turns to finish it then we could capture the worker or wait an other 10 turns to let that city grow and captire it too..

Some of those marked city spots are not that great, but as time goes a settler will be relatively cheaper, economy more stable so we could suppport more. Yet there are 4 city spots (plus the area where the barb city is) which should be filled asap, I agree on that. (the first one is near the mayan border, the second to connect the fur, the third to get the fish and deer in the NW, and one north of Apolyton.) that will net us 18(19) cities. I think right now egypt has 17 and some civs 15-16.

One interesting option is to build a galley and send a settlers to one of the northern islands and build a city on the silver. It would give +2 happyness in those cities which have forge (which are most of them). But then we would need to defend that city.. it could be an achilles' heel of our empire.. waiting to get razed or conquered.

One interesting fact I noticed: we could relatively easily connect the inner sea with the outer one. we would need to build a fort temporarly on the sheep resource whenever our ships wanted to cross, but it's still good if we plan to unify our fleets.

[Dinner]

I like both of those ideas.

[mzprox]

I had a very lengthy discussion with India, I tried to convince them to abandon economics, but I couldn't.. They said the decision will be made next turn, but until then we should keep pushing our science rate.. (this doesn't mean too much, mostly to finish feudalism by next turn. I wanted to avoid this so Egypt wouldn't had got science bonus for it. )

[Dinner]

Well I looked around:

Some things which need to change:

* As you said production is too low
* Still cities are massively underdeveloped

An excellent example is Ankara:



One of our older cities. This city can be POP14 (11+temple+hammam). It is 6! while it has the Moai Status.
And it is building wealth?! And even now we are not growing to the max. The cow tile is not used. And we are not using the copper tile..


* We are building wealth in two cities while we need workers and missionairies ???
* While we do need those workers, missionairies (and settlers) Apolyton is building an archer ? > change that for a worker and send this one to Ankara
* and you are talking about a massive drafting / slaving program? You will slave the entire economy to a halt.
* After 141 turns there is area within 5 tiles of our capital where 3 excellent resources and a massive amount of coastal tiles (we have the colossus) are unused.



Another one:


* Diyarbakir: a city which also has been around for a while. It has just slaved, no worker in sight, while only 2! tiles have been developed. We get 3 hammers, while there is a tile with marble! and an excellent hill tile. And a missionairy needs to go there, to get +25% production.

Great post. We simply MUST let our cities grow, develop those tiles, and build cities far faster. We have great locations right next to our capital which we haven't bothered to settle while MOST (not just some but MOST) of our cities don't have enough developed tiles. I honestly think we've got side tracked with other stuff and we need to get back to the basics. Build the cities, develop the tiles, and let the populations grow.

[Hercules]

RB insights



Spy insights.

[Hercules]

RB insights 2

City DitchDigger size 5

Growing (Gr) 2
Production (Pd) Courthouse 6

Buildings
Granary (G)
Obelisk (O)
Temple (T?)

Mil Garrison: Warchariot 1 Axe 1

City Horse Feather size 13

Gr 1
Pd Wchar

Mil Garr: Mace1, Catapult 4, Axe 1

City Brick by Brick Size 8

Gr 2
prod Wchar

Barracks
Gr
Forge
Ob
Theatre
ZEUS

Garrison: Spear 1 Axe1

City Tree Hugger

Gr 1
P 11rod Hindu Miss

Gran
Forge
Ob
Lib
Temp
Hindu Mon

Garr: Mace 1 Axe 1

City Focal Point size 8

gr 6
Prod Forge 1

barr
Gran
Ob
T
Shwedayan Paya ( Wonder)

Garr:?

City Seven Tribes Size 7
Gr 1
Prod Forge 1

Gran
Aqued
Ob
Lib
Theatre
Hanging Gardens

Garr: Spear1

[Hercules]

RB Insights 2

City French Riveria Size 5
Gr 1
Prod Lib 3
Gran
Ob

Garr: Settler

City Adventure One Capital size 13
Gr 2
Prod: Forge 13
P
Palace
gr
Ob
Lib
Market
Hindu Temple


City Single Life Size 6

gr 3
prod Forge 34

Gran
Ob
Lib

garr 1 Axe


City The Covenant size 5

gr 1
prod Lib 42

Gran
Ob


City Forbidden Fruit size 8

Gr 2
Prod Hindu Monastry

Gran
Forge
Ob
Lib
Theatre

City Mansa's Muse size 10

gr Stagnant
Prod Forge 7

Gran
Ob
Lib
Theatre
market
Wonders
Kashi
Sltone
GreatWall

City Cutting Edge size 6
gr 1
Prod Forge 26

Gran
OB

City Gourmet Menu Size 9

gr 2
Prod Market

Gran
Light
Forge
Ob
Lib
Wonder Great Lighthouse

Garr: Axe 1

City Eastern Dealers Size10

No info

City Let it Snow Size 1

No info.

City Starfall

No Info

[Dinner]

I would really rather we concentrate on building up our tiny civ right now instead of launching wars we aren't ready for. Our priority should be letting our cities grow to the pop limit followed by reaching the 1.5 workers to city ration, followed by founding those 10 cities we have space for. I know I'm not the only one to feel this way, several people have spoken up, so I would like to see some action here even if it means other goals get delayed. The stuff above is the most important.

[Hercules]

world map situation

Civs are closer than you think

[Dinner]

All the more reason to claim the land before someone else does. We're tiny and as Cal pointed out there are great city spots with in 5 tiles of our capital which we haven't bothered to settle. I think MZ is letting himself get carried away with other stuff and has been ignoring the basics like improving tiles and founding cities.

[mzprox]

You always mention this 'great' city site close to the capital. 1 it's not that great,2 it will be settled within 10 turns. I had to make a choice and I believe i was supported in it then, namely to rush and build cities far away from our capitol to block the mayan expansion. It's all about land grab: we secure good borders then backfill later. That's what we will do. we don't have much less cities than the others and the ones we have are much more advanced than the average (in number of buildings,that is why our gnp is high). 1,5 magic number for worker/city is strategy dependant. The slave economy I do (and if you know my past games you should know how effective it is) requires much less workers. No need to tell me again that I shouldn't slave..I got it already.. I'm doing a transition now and will reduce slavings. I still think we won't be able to avoid draftings to have a great army though.

[mzprox]

Good point showing that our landis not that far from RB's. I too got the idea that a surprise attack from the seacould work in our favor. we have the +1 movement on water, many coastal cities to eventually rule the sea.

[mzprox]

New turn, there is nothing extraordinary happening as most of the things ara planned for the next 5-10 turns in advance. We captured the barb city, the maintenance cost is getting very high (190g/turn) Apolyton city is building a settlers, then a worker.
We have feudalism, next tech is 'guilds'.

[Hercules]

Got this from Tatu / Proviisori WPC

[Greetings to the most respected Lizzy, whose beauty transcends all boundaries.
And greetings to the great people of Ottoman empire.

Our relationship has been peaceful and prosperous for a long time and our citizens have enjoyed the opportunity to visit your country for business and pleasure.

The bureaucrats of our nation also want to affirm the friendly relations by signing a non-aggression pact between our nations. We believe there is no obstacles against it, as our nations are comfortable distance away form each other.

We would like to propose a NAP up to turn 200 between our nations.

Would you agree with this proposal?

As always, feel free to be in touch if you anything to ask from us.

Best regards,

proviisori of WPC