Lizzy's rise to greatness

[Hercules]

I got this message in game from WPC. I wrote it down. It might still be there for who ever logs in next.

WPC
'I have a better idea. Keep your rifles. I am trying to get my settler to you but he is still a couple of turns away.

When I declare war on you, take Sand and Blood. New Human River and Great Plains asap.

Sound Good

Will send an email with more comprehensive plans'

So I guess we have been in negotiation with WPC about getting their cities to frustrate Civplayers.

[OzzyKP]

Sounds like a fair offer.

[mzprox]

about the Kremlin wonder: we both refused to give up our chances on it for 2500 gold. I suggested an other deal: We both go for it and the winner payes 1000 gold to the loser. This way at least the sacrifice we do in our cities won't be done in vain. The Kremlin worth much more than 1000g because in the end money will be almost useless while Kremlin allows cheap slaving of modern armors. So we bet this 1000 gold against ourselves. If we still win 1000 gold won't be a big price to pay and if we lose we are getting 1000g+the hammers from Kremlin and our position will become stronger compared to the other civs(except for aztecs ofc).

[mzprox]

casus belli maybe, but they did nothing to break the Non-aggression pact.

[Hercules]

Well they might hate their attackers more. Also because of that earlier situation where they captured that Inca city, we could argue casus belli.

[mzprox]

do you mean before our nap with wpc runs out.?

Once that war starts maybe we could persuade wpc to DOW on us and then we could intervene?

Yes i mean that. And why would wpc break the nap with us just so we join against them. they not particularly like us.

[Hercules]

update on diplomatic situation.

Now we believe aztec will attack wpc before our nap will run out and we can't do anything. Soon they will have a huge cavalry army which units are stronger than drafted infantries.
About the Kremlin i told aztec we would like to decide next turn. I did not see them slaving in the city where i suspect they want to build the kremlin.. that gives me hope that they want it in a different city, but that can not be a threat if we do everything right. I will know more next turn.

do you mean before our nap with wpc runs out.?

Once that war starts maybe we could persuade wpc to DOW on us and then we could intervene?

[OzzyKP]

Ok, keep us updated. It sounds like you are doing well.

[mzprox]

update on diplomatic situation.

I and team cfc too have realized that we underestimated aztec's potential. Recently aztec is doing very smart moves and also some questionable.. in way that we must question: is maya aztec's puppet now?. Maya doing unlogical things which favors aztec.(researching tech which is useless to them but aztec needs it, sending their whole army helping aztec for nothing, they let aztec steal from them, no defense at all... and considering maya was a top nation once and now they lost their own chance for winning..)
Now we believe aztec will attack wpc before our nap will run out and we can't do anything. Soon they will have a huge cavalry army which units are stronger than drafted infantries.
The good thing is that i and cfc see this situation the same way. The two of us are a bit still stronger than maya+aztec, though they will have the defenders advantage. We think aztec should be weakened by destroying his sidekick, the maya. we expect they will get some kind of help from aztec, and none of us alone is strong enough to win that war, we will need to work together.

The things above are my opinion, nothing is set, but we sould set our plans soon and start preparing. really the only other option is to ally with aztec against cfc, but then aztec would be stronger than us, not to mention aztec+maya.. so it is not a real option.
About the Kremlin i told aztec we would like to decide next turn. I did not see them slaving in the city where i suspect they want to build the kremlin.. that gives me hope that they want it in a different city, but that can not be a threat if we do everything right. I will know more next turn.

[mzprox]

Aztec says they would pay us 50 gpt till t240 or 2500g by t210. now this is something we should consider...I think the second option is better for us, but difficult decision for sure:
Try for the kremlin with huge sacrifices in Apolyton city or take 2500g from aztec..

[mzprox]

in this turn we got communism and the free great spy, we will have to sell it to cfc as it was the condition of the loan. We agreed that we get 2700 if it turns out we were in race with aztec for the gspy and 3500 if we were not. But aztec got sci method in the previous turn and will get communism in the next. so, yes we could only get this gp with cfc's money... still 2700 gold is not bad for us. and also at least aztec will not have this gspy.

About the kremlin. i think we have 0 chance. Even if i microed apolyton to put 290 hammer into it in the very first turn.. that 7 forests they have worth 525 porduction.
Last night I was talking with ot4e (aztec's turn player) and i thought I would try to pull a bluff. I told them i think we both have a good chance on getting the Kremlin, why don't we decide who gets it and the other receives gold. I told him if we are getting 2500 gold we will not build the kremlin, or we pay 2500 if they don1t build it.
I'd rather pay 2500 but have the kremlin for sure. It's a lot of money, butwith the Kremlin it's cheap to build armies and that's more important than 1-2 tech advantage.
They don't want to pay us so much money but they also won't give up on the kremlin.. that tells me they are confident they will get it, so i'm right assuming all those forests will be cut. I think they are ok with paying something less.

So what should we do:
-try to get as much as possible from aztec and giving up on Kremlin
-try our luck and hope we can build it faster (very unlikely)
-offer even more stuff.. 2500g is a lot already.

Aztec thinks we are expecting a great engineer. I didn't say we do, but i also did not deny it.. I want them to believe we are expecting the Kremlin in the same turn as they do and try to make them pay at least

[Dinner]

Sounds fine.

[OzzyKP]

Go for it.

[mzprox]

Thx for the pics.

Yes, harbors are quite disappointment. The problem is they take away the best trade routes from our best cities which are not coastal so the can't build harbors.

I have an idea about getting better income: I think we should make an offer to some civs (HRE, wpc) to spread our religion in their cities and return we pay them 50 gold for each succesful spreadings.
We get 2g/turn for each, but soon it will be 3g (so our investment returns in 17 turns). (but it also has the advantage that when we take their cities we don't need to spread our religion there ourselves )
Whast do you think?

[OzzyKP]

I posted a ton of info in the Intel Ops thread.

And I'd love to see other buildings built ahead of harbors. They don't seem to offer quite as much.