Time to Pick a Leader & Civ

[OzzyKP]

Hey folks, it looks like we have 9 total teams in the game. They put the teams into a random number generator and we will be the third team to pick. This is the pick order:

Team WePlayCiv
Team Civforum.de
Team Apolyton
Team Spanish Apolyton
Team Civfanatics
Team CivPlayers
Team Realms Beyond
Team UniversCivilization
Team Civfr

We will then be the third to last team to pick in the second round.

I think we were mostly in agreement that Elizabeth should be our top choice for leader. So I recommend we try to get her in the first round and then pick our civ in the second round.

[mrboo123]

agreed. Leader traits are far more important than any uu/ubs

[Hercules]

Yes we are agreed Liz is our first choice, nevertheless we need to have 2nd and third options just in case. Also we need to think of options for the civ choice.

[DNK]

Well, if mzprox is our economic leader, we should ask what he feels better with: PHI or FIN? Seems like we need to pick that trait first w/o Liz, then focus on the second trait. I am guessing PHI...

[Calanthian]

Mzprox said earlier:

1 Elizabeth
2-3 Peter-Pericles
4 Gandhi

I would make Pericles 2nd choice.

PS. What is the map size?? > this hugely affects which leader is best..

[DNK]

Guess that means PHI.

So, we need to decide on the second trait if not FIN.

I prefer CRE or EXP, I think. I don't normally play EXP, but given my predilection for workers, I don't see why I don't Basically, I agree with mzprox's two second choices, perhaps leaning towards Pericles.

For map size: I imagine we're getting a "normal" amount of space to expand into for whatever size map it is.

[Calanthian]

For map size: I imagine we're getting a "normal" amount of space to expand into for whatever size map it is.

If so then I vote against EXP, CRE is better in that case..

[mzprox]

We can't go wrong with Elizabeth for sure. Philosophical leader gives a very good science boost during early-med game. They are not so popular choices for multigames tough, at least in those i saw at RB-'s site.
So picking Elizabeth is good, but if we can't get her I think we don't need to worry for Pericles or Peter (Exp trait is consiered to be among the strongest, fast granaries help a lot, cheaper workers also could save whole turns in the begining)
My point so we go with Elizabeth, but if we can't get her we might choose a civ instead. Some unique buildings are really great and starting techs are also important. I prefer to have a civ which starts with warrior (so no hunting)-but my prefered civ, the aztecs are one of those huning civs.

[Hercules]

The snakepit process will start 5 june over at CFC. A team has up to 24 hrs to make its first pick.

[LzPrst]

sounds good to me with either philo.

[Dinner]

So we know the leader, what about the civ assuming we're playing any leader can play any civ? MY experience is in MP games who ever gets to bronze working first has a huge advantage as they can nab the bronze and start getting axes. Which ever civ we take should start with a warrior and should start with a tech which helps us on the bronze working line. Failing that I'd go for a civ which helps us nab a religion.

[mzprox]

let's see our options for civ. Some general points:

pro for a civ:
-starting without hunting (so with a warrior)
-starting tech: mining (leads to bronze working, gives job to worker)
-startting tech: agriculture (very usefull and relatively expensive)
-unique unit which is usefull for early game or for a long period (free promotion which is kept after upgrade)
-unique building which gives economic advantage and realtively early.

Going through on this list:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/civilizations

I collect those civs which we should consider, I only put civs here which has at least somewhat useful UB.

Aztecs

Jaguar
Sacrificial Altar
Mysticism
Hunting

Very bad starting techs but a very powerful unique building. It's a cheaper courthouse and if I look at my last game it could mean about 10 extra happyness/ city. UU is not that good, but promoted units keep woodsman I.

Carthage

Numidian Cavalry
Cothon
Fishing
Mining

Very strong if we start and spread along the coast, but risky take if we don't know more about the map. UB:+1 trade route

Dutch

East Indiaman
Dike
Fishing
Agriculture

Dike(leeve):+1 prod on water tiles very strond, but requires coastal cities. And in that case I'd consider CArthage as a better pick

Egypt

War Chariot
Obelisk
Agriculture
The Wheel

Expensive starting techs and good UU. UB is not that usefull

England

Redcoat
Stock Exchange
Fishing
Mining

Stock exchange is 15% extra money, redcoats are nice but riflemens are usually short lived units, fishing is map dependent.

Holy Roman Empire

Landsknecht
Rathaus
Hunting
Mysticism

very bad starting techs, strong UB: -75% maintenance instead of 50%. Even more useful on a torodial map.

Inca

Quechua
Terrace
Agriculture
Mysticism

One of the civs which is considered to be top choice. +2 culture granaries, especially combined with an exp civ..

India

Fast Worker
Mausoleum
Mysticism
Mining

An other top choice. The always usefull fast workers, +2 happiness from jail is also very good


Korea

Hwacha
Seowon
Mysticism
Mining

+10% science on universities, not bad

Mali

Skirmisher
Mint
Mining
The Wheel

10% money on forges, good UU and starting techs.


Ottomans

Janissary
Hammam
Agriculture
The Wheel

Expensive starting techs, +2 happy face aqueducts are quite good, UU has no big role.

Portugal

Carrack
Feitoria
Fishing
Mining

UB: +1 commerce on water I'd put Carthage and the Dutch above this pick


Rome

Praetorian
Forum
Fishing
Mining

Praetorians..


Sumeria

Vulture
Ziggurat
Agriculture
The Wheel

Ziggurat is a cheaper courthouse which comes earlier. Good if we want to build a spy economy. combined with a phi/org leader especially... Otherwise I'd choose the rathaus.

Zulu

Impi
Ikhanda
Agriculture
Hunting

Ikhanda is a barrack with -20% maintenance

[mzprox]

my picks in order (assuming pangea map):

-India
-Aztec
-Inca
-Korea/England/Mali

I'm quite sure India and Inca will be taken if we don't choose them first.
We could consider making our first pick as either India or Elizabeth. If both are available I'd choose India before Elizabeth. fast workers could save us turns in the beginning and instead of Liz we can have phi/cre, phi/org, phi/exp or phi/spi. all viable choice and phi leaders are that popular in mp games. (India is)

[Calanthian]

My choices are Inca and HRE (starting techs are very good to beeline religion, oracle and then code of laws, and then the UB is avaiable)

[DNK]

I thought pangaea was being kicked around, which means we're likely to see less coastal stuff. Also think that trade routes will be less important than in diplogames given way more closed borders, especially if we get ahead in tech.

As such, Carthage and the Dutch don't make as much sense to me.

I like the Aztecs somewhat since we're going with toroidal and likely an ESP-heavy game. Starting techs do suck, though, and I'm not a huge fan of the UU either.

England has good starting techs, but they're really midgame-lategame oriented in Us - pass.

HRE I like, though starting techs aren't great. Can't really go for the early religion cause then we end up without improvements for too long, so mysticism isn't worth much here. Still, the Us are nice and worth the poor start I think.

Inca is solid, plus we might be able to go for an early religion if we have a solid agricultural start. The UU isn't so great, but the Terrace is a free trait basically. Definitely works well with EXP.

India - love it. Fast worker is probably the best UU, the jail is a bit late but nice, and the starting techs are versatile in that we can go for an early religion or get BW quickly, plus we have a key improvement tech while we wait on things.

Korea - above average. Nice with a CRE leader.

Portugal - again, if we're unlikely to see much coast we can pass, though +1C on water plus a FIN trait plus Colossus makes for a real killer combo.

Rome - solid choice. I like the UB and UU and the starting techs are fairly decent.

Basically:
1. India
2. Inca
3. Rome