Test Game: Lizzy of Holy Rome

[DNK]

So, let's try out some different strategies on this one. We start in the middle of 4 AIs mostly known for being real bastards in SP, meant to approximate MP competition. The map is toroidal inland sea, large, tropical. The sea is to the north of us (and south, but it's quicker to go north).

No huts, no barbs, no events, no vassals, aggressive AI, balanced resources (mostly)

Attached are the save and the starting locations.


How the thread will work (differently than Cal's):

We will play through to T200 and stop. We will share our saves for T50,100,150, and 200, posting summaries of each as we complete them. Discussion is free-form and can start whenever you like - I doubt there are any big spoilers since the map and positions are posted here in the OP

Good luck!

[DNK]

T50 report

SIP: can't find anything particularly great about moving. So-so start, but at least it will cottage well.

Build: worker-warrior-warrior-settler(pop4)-warrior-warrior-settler-worker
Tech: agri-AH-mining-BW-wheel-pottery(4T to go)
Work: farm-past-mine-farm-mine->C2>-past-mineCu

City2: 1SW copper
City3: middle of 2 FPs and corn on top of jungle tile (to be settled in 2T)

Thoughts: need more workers. Wonders? Might pause the REX for Oracle chop/whip once I finish Pottery and start on Writing.

[Robert]

Playing now.

[DNK]

T100 v1

C1 worker-warrior-settler-axeman-axe-axe-axe-settler-lib-settler-shwegadon-worker
C2 monument-worker-granary-axe-axe-spear-barracks-axe-axe-axe-spear-scout-scout
C3 monument-granary(W83)-lib
C4 monument-granary-lib
C5(88) granary(W97)-lib
C6(100) granary

work road copper and then to cap, chop for settler, road to C3 location, another mines C2 gold. another farms C3, chop monument in C3, farm corn C2, mine C1, cot C4, cot C3, mine Au C3, mine phill C2, farm corn C3, chop C5 loc, chop gran C4, cot C1, mine Au C3, past C5, cot C4, past pig C4, cot C5, chop/cot C1, road C3-C1, cot C5, cot C4

tech writing-Aesthetics-med-Poly

decision: city4, where? Ragnar has placed one at the sheep location 4SW1W of my cap, but SE and N are still clear. I'd like marble for a Classical wonder, but am not seeing any nearby. I decide the spot a bit W of Timbuktu is amazing, though lacking in production. Still, aggressive REX if I can't get wonders.

C5 founded 1SE of southern sheep

C6 founded on PH 1SW of northern pig

T100 wrapup:
1st, really should have grabbed Buddhism - I had a 3C tile and Mysticism. One more reason to replay. Really poor tech path, rambling around. Getting killed on maint costs combined with unit costs. Monty went to war with Darius, so I've stopped building units for now, though Ragnar and his praets are just as big an issue, and after the worker finishes it's back to units. All in all, I want to restart and try again, I'm really not happy with how I did this or how I chose techs (really poorly in the past 25T). I also think I microed poorly, mostly on account of lacking workers - C4 should be far better matured right now, plus C3 is missing a lot of cottages it should have had a long time ago. Additionally, I really should have chopped out Stonehenge as constant monument building has slowed down my cities' growth curves considerably. I'm also not sure about Southern Point. It's very aggressive, but Louis is the least aggressive of my neighbors, and the location will improve in time. That said, it's dangling out on a limb whose flank is covered by Ragnar's praets - point being it's not likely to be mine long enough to mature nicely. I think on replay I will settle elsewhere, especially with maintenance costs being what they are - aggressive settling doesn't really pay off with aggressive neighbors and toroidal wrap.

GNP 42/98 - will improve considerably in 5-10T once I have more cottages being worked and such, but it's still crap
Goods 34/43 - fine enough
Crops 64/80 - meh
Soldiers 103/178 - the 178 (and about 170) are my two loving neighbors.

[OzzyKP]

GNP 42/98 - will improve considerably in 5-10T once I have more cottages being worked and such, but it's still crap
Goods 34/43 - fine enough
Crops 64/80 - meh
Soldiers 103/178 - the 178 (and about 170) are my two loving neighbors.

"Crops 64/80 " What does this mean? Do you have 64 or 80? I don't understand the split. Also, raw beakers is more useful then GNP since GNP is affected by culture, espionage, and the tech bonus depending on which tech you are inventing.

[DNK]

T100 v2

mine/#1

Tried again.

Tech Poly-Agriculture-AH-Mining-BW-Wheel-Priesthood-Writing-Pottery-Monarchy-Meditation-Maths

C1 worker-warr-warr-settler-Stonehenge-worker-Oracle-settler-settler-axe-spear-axe-spear...
C2(46) warr-worker-lib/granary-lib-axe...
C3(975) grnary-axe-spear...
C4(86) granary

GNP 82/73 (23BPT)
Goods 20/33
Crops 28/72
Army 72/178
Pop 61/444

Well, mass whipping tends to ruin metrics. Not out of the woods if another AI attacks, but I think I can handle Mali now. Have:
Oracle, Stonehenge, Hinduism, Confucianism, 2 shrines, 3 workers (only!)

Notes
Go Poly rather than Med as it is more expensive, but I can't work my 3C tile for a few turns, so I have a better chance of grabbing it as I will have the 3C for more of the tech time. Micro the worker to be out 1T before Agri finishes. Still, worker dawdles for several turns as AH finishes. For micro, I'm making good use of the 1F1H3C wine tile. It's slowing my growth down slightly, but getting improvement techs out earlier will help make up for lost time from taking Polytheism. Stonehenge is timed to start right about when I get BW for chops - hopefully I can make up for the lack of stone, and I need the GPro for the Kong.
I decide to settle C2 3NE1N of the capital. Yes, it doesn't get the stone, but my experience with costs in the last run has me convinced that closer=better. I didn't get much use out of my forests last time anyway, and I have a lot, so I can do without stone. I'm never sure what build to do here, so I go with a warrior.
Kind of feel silly having 2 religions and 2 early wonders. Definitely not something I would aim for in MP, but it worked here.
GP pops and I send him to C2 for Confucianism - I will be using the missionary on Cathy soon, and she should spread it liberally. Monty has Buddhism already, so I'm thinking there will be Roman cities with that already, lessening the impact of spreading there.
C3 must get the copper, so it goes as before 1SW of that. I'm falling dangerously behind in power, and Ragnar's already near my doorstep.
C4 founded south by sheep. After this, I need to get units ASAP. Too weak and my neighbors are ridiculous.
War(T90) Louis invades near corn, whipping commences. He doesn't raze my undefended southern city and instead heads straight to cap. Stack beaten, and Monty starts massing units on his border city.

Lessons:

• No way I can expand and wonder like this in MP. I barely got away with it in SP, and tbh I had to can my first reattempt due to Cathy invading me with my pants down. I had to stop REXing well before my economy would let me just to build up units. Vs a human, I certainly would have lost my southern city, probably the game if Monty attacked.
• 1 wonder - 1 religion would have been better. Oracle is nice, but the hammers just aren't there in the early game. Maybe if I had stone for both I could have afforded both, but I really need hammers to build up units and keep up with the neighbors.
• Taking the copper city first should have been priority. Even if I was safe for a while, I should have been building axemen/spears well before I did.

[DNK]

Did another playthrough from T50 on the last one, this time foregoing Oracle and Confucianism and instead playing a bit more "realistically", building units instead. I did a mass whipping mid-way for workers/settlers (which greatly improved things as I was working improved tiles more quickly), but by the time I was attacked didn't need to whip any more units really, so things worked out better. I will work from this save for my T200 game.

48BPT@70%
23HPT
43FPT
24Pop (4 cities, 1 settler being built)
4 workers (want 3 more)
1 successful defensive war (finished) with Cathy
Stonehenge
Hinduism+Shrine

[OzzyKP]

The real test though will be playing the same start (either this one or the last one) with different civs. I really do think Sumeria should be on our list.

[Dinner]

I put the save game file in BTS/single player games (or something to that effect), I fire up BTS, go to load saved game, see the save file there, but when I try to load it I am told "cannot load version 302, expect version 300 or lower". What does that mean?

[mzprox]

is your BTS patched to 3.19?

[Dinner]

Well, now I feel dumb. I reinstalled the game and forgot to patch it up to 3.19. It's working now.

[Dinner]

Hmmm, I must be rusty at this game as I haven't played it in at least a year. So my turn 100 results are five cities with a combined pop of just 20, two wonders (Stonehenge and oracle), no religion (which is killing my income per turn), 9 units (3 archers, 4 warriors, 1 axe with another next turn, 1 scout), 13 techs (see save) with one next turn, 4 workers, and science down to 50%. I had one of my secondary cities building the temple of artemis just because it had nothing else to build but now I'm hoping someone else beats me just so I can get the cash.

Link to save game file: http://www.sendspace.com/file/1wndrl

[Calanthian]

Work and holidays taking me from civ.. will be picking this up later

[Dinner]

Damn, I made it to turn 200 and Louis XIV won a time victory. WTF?

[DNK]

It's only a 200T test run.