Domination of Barbarians [Diplo Game] [Setup Thread]

[Sommerswerd]

@ Calanthian - I am on the road today so I can't respond in as much detail...

1. You make some valid points about the rules. I will read in more depth later. We still have time to debate and change rules.
2. We still have time to debate the Map as well

[DNK]

Regarding the score and no-score mod and territory and losing cities: you can probably adjust the no-score mod to only include population in the scoring. I think most people know that pop alone isn't the most important thing (though, given my play style, maybe I don't ), and it would still record lost cities (and whipping/drafting).

[Carthage (DoF)]

I would take a look at the world map of Rye's and Fall of Civilization. It has an enlarged Europe. I think it is wise to follow that idea..

[Kenshin2]

Or perhaps even a larger version than that. I don't know if Pitboss can handle GEM but that would certainly make for an epic game, and "shortage" on space is only having 3-5 cities.

[Sommerswerd]

At a reststop reading...

@ Elkad- Wow I don't know what to say. I am actually a little relieved you feel Africa South America and the islands are untouched. I added and changed so much on this map... Especially resources... I was a little worried you might say its too much. But if you don't even notice thats a good thing i guess.

So please make suggestions for what else can be added/changed. Keep in mind that localized resource Monopolies are a big part of the workings of the Map.

@ Calanthian - Are you saying that the Tier 1 starts seem too difficult?

And You trade for hapiness resources, or found colonies, or run Monarchy, or build buildings. Many paths to choose from.

The map has plenty of Iron and Horses, trade for it or expand for it.

[Sommerswerd]

About Rhyes Map and GEM- Can't enlarge Europe. It's supposed to be cramped. Making it larger would defeat the whole intent of the Map. The Tier 1 and 2 starts are supposed to be the most difficult by far. It's tough to see making any changes to make things easier for the Tier 1 starts in Europe. Theres Huge Iron coppers horses Marble Stone galore plenty of Pigs and the Fish are just off the charts.

Ozzy's CPU cant do a GEM, and I promised him i wouldnt go there, so thats not happening. The spacing in Europe is pretty much set.

[Exploit]

The point of the scenario was to create an unbalanced map. As has been pointed out there are plenty of examples of "balanced" world maps which have been played ad nauseum. It is time for something completely different. The game will be won or lost on your diploscore not on achieving a victory condition (plus you cannot be eliminated from the game). The stories of how some of the high Tier level Civs overcame their unbalanced cramped starts should make for more interesting reading then the victories over the endless hordes of barbarians of the lower Tier levels so the high levels inherently have an advantage in terms of actually winning the game by diploscore.

Everyone has a copy of the map and can see the starting situations in detail so they will know if they are going to be happy playing a particular civ. There are no players in the game that qualify as Tier 6 and yet those positions will need to be filled therefore some players from higher Tiers will get those easy civs to play so if you do not like your tier options just wait until a lower Tier civ that you are willing to play is available for selection. As long as someone is willing to follow the path of glory by playing the resource-challenged civs then there is no need to change the map. If no one is willing to claim a particular civ then the map should be modified until someone is willing to claim the civ.

On that note, if none of the more experienced diplogamers claims a high tier level civ then I assume we lowly tier players can choose the civ if we so desire, correct?

[Exploit]

Only that Exploit insisted he be put in tier 1 for DoE and then quit like 20 turns into the game.

That very bad DoE experience is why I haven't played Civ IV since and why I ranked myself lower Tier. In terms of SP games, I can beat Emperor level regularly. I have played 10 pitboss games(on this and other sites) and won 4 of them (including beating 2metraninja at least once).

On that record I felt tier 1 was appropriate in DoE however that game taught me that diplogames have a bunch of past precedent rules, conventions, exceptions and such that I have no way of knowing and which directly contradict the rules as written. In the DoE case I had even done my due diligence by posting my understanding of the rules and asking for clarification and I was told in no uncertain terms that my understanding was correct and yet the exact opposite ruling (about taking cities from Civs with 3 or less cities) was used and as such I got irreconcilably screwed! I make no apologies for resigning under the circumstances.

From a technical game perspective, I am not afraid to take one of the higher tier civs but based upon the fact that my diplogaming experience amounts to 20 turns, I felt a lower tier was more appropriate so that I do not get screwed over again by a misunderstanding of the diplogame rules.

If no one else claims the high tier civs then I will claim one.

[OzzyKP]

At a reststop reading...

@ Elkad- Wow I don't know what to say. I am actually a little relieved you feel Africa South America and the islands are untouched. I added and changed so much on this map... Especially resources... I was a little worried you might say its too much. But if you don't even notice thats a good thing i guess.

Hahah, it is ridiculously too much. Quite noticeable. But I'm up for something different.

[OzzyKP]

That very bad DoE experience is why I haven't played Civ IV since and why I ranked myself lower Tier. In terms of SP games, I can beat Emperor level regularly. I have played 10 pitboss games(on this and other sites) and won 4 of them (including beating 2metraninja at least once).

On that record I felt tier 1 was appropriate in DoE however that game taught me that diplogames have a bunch of past precedent rules, conventions, exceptions and such that I have no way of knowing and which directly contradict the rules as written. In the DoE case I had even done my due diligence by posting my understanding of the rules and asking for clarification and I was told in no uncertain terms that my understanding was correct and yet the exact opposite ruling (about taking cities from Civs with 3 or less cities) was used and as such I got irreconcilably screwed! I make no apologies for resigning under the circumstances.

From a technical game perspective, I am not afraid to take one of the higher tier civs but based upon the fact that my diplogaming experience amounts to 20 turns, I felt a lower tier was more appropriate so that I do not get screwed over again by a misunderstanding of the diplogame rules.

If no one else claims the high tier civs then I will claim one.

Well if you've won 4 regular pitboss games, and beat 2met, then yea, you should be tier 1 or 2. Just don't quit on us. Based on my list earlier, I"d suggest Beta get bumped down to tier 3, and you join tier 2.

[Sommerswerd]

Bah, double post... Stupid smartphone

[2metraninja]

I already said Exploit is strong at least as me, and it is flattering to see beating me as a measure for some serious civ MP achievement but this example where you won is not the best. If it is Mavericks Pitboss, I came there as replacement and took over a civ so long deserted, that it had 2 cities, while the others had like 10-12 and the second was so terribly placed, that I had to ask Niklas to raze it

Despite this, it was great game and you played it the best possible way - I have never saw a Spaceship built and launched in a single turn. Diplomatically you did it very well too - was playing both sides and securing NAPs with my alliance near the end and earning my sympathy, so I unleashed the nuclear hell on your 2 competitors and then when you launched I kept my word and not attacked you so you can win via the SS. Third place and the feeling that I have chosen the more worthy player from you and Nakor was still satisfying enough for me.

Bottom line is I think you not only play the game mechanics well, but are very experienced in the diplomacy too. You belong to tier 1 if I am going to be put there.

[Elkad]

The map is completely overboard in Eurasia. Fine, if that's the intent.

The point is that the whole southern hemisphere seems rather neglected in comparison.

Fish - Big disparity between the Hemispheres.
All the cold water areas need lots of Crabs. Alaska, Argentina, etc
Big jungles in South America and SE Asia should have a few forests. Hardwoods are valuable.

South Africa. More inland food (Deer? Flood plains?)
Pacific Islands. Sugar, Clams. And add a tile to the big island of Hawaii (or change the mountain tile to a hill?)
South America. Sugar, metals, corn. Northeast area (Venezuala/Guyana) needs Aluminum.
Australia. Metals (including Uranium), Coal. Inland Sheep and/or Wheat for more food (yeah, they are imported..)
New Zealand. Sheep?

I didn't count relative tiles, so not sure how Cereal Mills will stack up vs Sushi for food production. Cereal makes more food per resource, but I still suspect they are unequal.

The culture output from Sushi might be a bit out of hand too. Just the fish in Japan will make well over 50/turn before multipliers.

[Exploit]

Bottom line is I think you not only play the game mechanics well, but are very experienced in the diplomacy too. You belong to tier 1 if I am going to be put there.

I do not want to give away which Civ I am going to be, so place me in Tier 2 but if all the Tier 1 civs are not picked shortly then I will pick one of them. I have a few ideas on how to utilize these starting positions to my advantage.

[Sommerswerd]

Yes I forgot to post the suggestions for start strategies that I made. I will do that when i get home. Portugal and Spain in particular have tremendous potential, especially Portugal if shrewdly played. France has many strategic resources plus the wonder resources. No cause for complaint there... And Spain? They start with Mysticism... Almost unfair.

Australia has Uranium and Coal already. Resource-wise, Australia is the most diverse of any Continent. That is the strength. The weakness is the small size and the large barren outback region.

Alumminum is supposed to be Rare, use Aluminum Inc to get more.