Destruction of Foes (DoF) - Diplogame Light

[Carthage (DoF)]

One more thing: sad to see that the moment I start to have enough troops again, my country is destroyed..

With my fleets I couldn't have done much else as I did..
you guys having the superior movement range and the bigger fleet.

[Carthage (DoF)]

This was the biggest and most fun operation I'm participated in in my diplogames-and even if i feel a bit sorry for Carthage it would had been a sin not to do it Thanks for the great sportmanship.

Well I am glad I did my part to inspire new levels of game play

[Bulgaria (DoF)]

I knew that, so I chose only to protect Leptis Magna and to counterattack on Carmino. Until those +2 transports bit me in the ass.

You forget the 9 commandos we created in secret. Without those none of the above would have been possible beyond the capture of Carmino. But yes, the 8-move transports were key element. And I think not showing this 8-move ability till the very last moment was good decision.

We were talking with Hungary discussing do we must raze LM when we can and we agreed that it is pity that we need to take one decision and we will never know what if we would made the opposite.

Can you try to recreate what would have you done when seeing our transports are 8-movers and we razed LM? What have you done then? It is interesting to hear.

[Carthage (DoF)]

I have been stretching my troops, ships and air force for about 100 turns now..
and I can't blame them that at one point my armed forces were not able to cope anymore..

I am not sure about playing on though, especially as my new Capital is indefensible in the long run, and there are still commandos on the loose..

[Bulgaria (DoF)]

Well I am glad I did my part to inspire new levels of game play

Yes, we have found in you the hated enemy we needed to unleash our anger and destructive potential. Also the whole "Carthago Delenda Est" story is way too infamous in historical sense and too tempting to recreate in-game. I like history.

Now when I think of it, you did inspired great creativity in a modern naval-based warfare not for the first time in the history of the diplo-games

[Carthage (DoF)]

Can you try to recreate what would have you done when seeing our transports are 8-movers

Then I would have tried to defend both Leptis Magna and Carmino, making sure as little units as possible would land, while making sure my fleet could strike the naval forces..

and we razed LM? What have you done then? It is interesting to hear.

Leptis was not that important, no real production capacity.. but you could have probably taken out most of my front cities, and the airforce with them. But I was not anticipating 8 commandos, was expecting 2 or 3 of them.. (and I kep scouting if I saw any..).
But still then I would have been able to make a good hard counterstrike, without major damage to my production sites..

I was preparing for a counterstrike scenario, as I hadn't the luxury to defend everything ..

Now my production is diminished and my wonders are gone ;(

[Carthage (DoF)]

PS. Perhaps you should read the story thread for a new Carthago delenda est story..

[Bulgaria (DoF)]

With my fleets I couldn't have done much else as I did..

Your only chance was to move your fleet a bit south - 2 tiles would have been enough to abort our mission. And initially when we started planning, your fleet was in position to thwart with our plan, so we had to come up with a way to make you move your fleet few tiles North. Thus why we sent ships/transports/many army in Adriatic and started simulating preparation for invasion activities. This finally made it, as you were repositioning your main fleet a bit each turn and it ended just w tiles North where we needed in. Also I think you were shifting units from Africa to reinforce Italy and our Commandos had a better chance to not encounter resistance once they land. (not sure though if you were actually sending units or just gathered them in Africa in secret.)

you guys having the superior movement range and the bigger fleet.

As far as I know our ships move the same range and your fleet is not way weaker than Egypt's. It was about who will hit first. Also, it is a shame that with your production and money resources your alliance had, you failed to sustain equal strength fleet. We were upgrading even the ancient frigates and ironclads as none of Bulgaria or Hungary could produce modern naval units.

I am not sure about playing on though, especially as my new Capital is indefensible in the long run, and there are still commandos on the loose..

Play on, it is a good game to just throw away. If it was so easy to despair, where would have Hungary been when they got half of their cities captured/razed in 3-4 turns? Continue to play and hope for the best, this is how it goes - one day you lose, the other you win. Its the game

[Carthage (DoF)]

As far as I know our ships move the same range and your fleet is not way weaker than Egypt's. It was about who will hit first. Also, it is a shame that with your production and money resources your alliance had, you failed to sustain equal strength fleet.

You seem to forget that we lost an entire army.. and we still hadnt invented missile cruisers..
we didnt have to luxury to do all at the same time.

Furthermore Egypt has missile cruisers of 9 and 10 moves.. while my battleships can move 8. And this has a huge impact on naval warfare. Furthermore my main fleet could not follow your spreading-out tactics, as the stealth destroyers made that an impossible path.

[Portugal (DoF)]

Hmm you guys did play your moves right. I think we made some crucial mistakes along the way in our alliance looking back at things, which allowed you to come so strong at us in the end. The end result is important at the end that is what matters. Well done again!

[Hungary (DoF)]

People like Carthage, Rome and Portugal show again how much more fun it is to win a battle if those who lost it are showing sportmanship. I'll remember that next time when I lose. (let's be honest, I still am a loser in this game, being thus puppet vassal of Egypt with half a razed empire and bombers that destroy 50% of my tile improvements every turn).

Some nice to know things:
- After we had selected the best elite units to promote to commandos (not all were Bulgarian, many of my units had so many XP/promotions after being in 6 different wars) I sent 4 of the most important ones north instead of south! We lost 2 turns! At first Bulgaria and Egypt wanted to continue with less commandos b/c they didn't want to lose time. After many many debates we decided that it was better to delay the attack and come with more commandos. That's why we had 9 in the end and not 6. (4 of the commandos were Hungarian, 3 Bulgarian and 2 Egyptian, we used 4 GGs, 1 Hungarian, 1 Bulgarian, 1 Persian and 1 Egyptian) (Persia was never told about this plan. we didn't want to run the risk that he would tell anybody. Especially paranoia Bulgaria, who didn't sleep for 2 weeks fearing that Egypt would not raze, feared this )

- The true CDE turn was delayed again 1 turn b/c of the 4 ships in the fort near Citorno. Again we decided that delaying and restraining was good. This time Egypt and Bulgaria insisted on delaying and I wanted to rush forward. I feared that the Carthagian fleet would come down 2 tiles and all would be lost. In the end I gave in. And Egypt/Bulgaria were right, the fleet didn't move.

What we did though to avoid movement was making a lot of noise in the north, relocate half our army and lay railroads towards the Roman borders from Debrecen. Egypt also moved it's fleet north a bit, all with the sole purpose: To distract The Eye of Sauron. If we would move north, then the fleet might not move south.

Question: did this work?

- The 3rd big debate was about Leptis Manga (or whatever the city is named).
I wanted to upgrade the ships (8 movers), take LM when it was hardly defended, then unload many units into the ruins of LM. We would then delete some transports, so that the remaining transports were exactly the number of transports we needed to carry the number of units that landed on the ruins of LM. (plan = tm Bulgaria) This should give the idea that we went for LM, unloaded everything into LM, and had just empty 8-movers in front of LM. Then Egypt should do a small invasion, all hoping that C would remain undefended.

I lost the debate, b/c they didn't want to run the risk.
I still regret this, I think we could also have had LM and you would not have feared for the (in your opinion) empty transporters enough to defend the true target, Carmino, with more then 10 units.

Of course we're all curious about what you would have done in that case (though it may be impossible to know what you would have done, because now you know)

So we had 3 huge debates, but all was fun! And I'm glad with this result!

[Carthage (DoF)]

The most important mistake was that we should have razed every city in Hungary and then pulled back..

and one major factor:
we are almost never online at the same time, so no chance for really complex moves and intricate plan making.

[Bulgaria (DoF)]

Oh, come on you! Dont start to speak about as if the end have come!

Yes, it is exactly what happens in the end that counts! Gather yourself and make a different - more favorable for you end of the story!

[Portugal (DoF)]

The new rails near D got Rome worried, I told him if they attack north Italy, Hungary will be ours in just a few turns.

[Egypt (DoF)]

I had feared that portugal has a fleet somewhere. I never saw any portugal ships and I tought your plan might be to gather such a huge fleet which I can't do anything against. Hungary/bulgaria couldnt build ships so many of my cities were constantly building them. I hadn't build many ground units and almost completely stopped producing them in the last 10 turns. Fighting for the sky also seemed futile tough you lost many planes damaging hungarian units which healed back in every turn. So in the end my strong fleet combined with the commandos gave us the success in CDE.

About to continue or not: discuss it, I would support you whatever you decide. true it would be an opportunity for great come-back. Bulgaria believes we just got our production even, I think it was quite close beofre CDE.