Destruction of Foes (DoF) - Diplogame Light

[OzzyKP]

What my UB and UU?

Can't be UB good for intercontinental trade, and UU good for crossing oceans early, in a game with only one continent and no ocean?

Your UB still gives +1 commerce to each water tile, so while yea, the regular custom house function won't be of much use here, the UB bonus is still fantastic. Your UU will still be useful, just not as useful as it'd be on a Terra map.

[Portugal (DoF)]

Come off it. The UU is worthless compared to the others because of the map. If you don't agree, then swap!

Come on. Its a problem we didn't think about. Lets solve it, not ignore.

[Inca (DoE)]

Ozzy / Inca: can you please post a complete list of all changes the mod introduces?

My side of the mod was 100% cosmetic:

Bonus resources have new artwork and names (but same effects)
There are some new great people names
I don't remember changing anything else.

The map was really my only gameplay input.

[OzzyKP]

Come off it. The UU is worthless compared to the others because of the map. If you don't agree, then swap!

Come on. Its a problem we didn't think about. Lets solve it, not ignore.

What would you prefer?

[Spain (DoF)]

Spain available for swapping

[Persia (DoF)]

Persia is as content as a bug in a rug of most fine intricacy!

[Ottoman Empire (DoF)]

Just waiting to hear from Rome, Bulgaria & Russia.

[Robert]

Then 8 hours it is.

[France (DoF)]

I'd hold on my civ, but I'd trade my wonderful salon for Portugal's UB. Great artists are useless unless going for culture, which I usually don't do in mp games.

[mzprox]

Hmm are we going to disable space victory this time too? maybe we should as well as cultural and diplo too. Let us be true to the title: only way is the destruction of foes . just an idea. Also: what about nuclear weapons?

[Portugal (DoF)]

None of us spotted problem of Portugal's UB and UU being about intercontinental and so useless on medi map. Tricky now since nations already given out.
Two problems:
1. UB. OK the gold on water tiles is useful, but its adding value to useless building. On continental map, CH is expensive but valuable, so you are improving a building you might build anyway - like all other UB. But on this map, nobody else will ever dream of building them, so its not adding extra value to a useful building.
2. Ship UU are generally pretty weak, since naval combat isn't a great feature on most maps, and isn't game winning. Carrack can be powerful in certain circumstances - get to optics early, and you have a window before others get astronomy to seize some new work. A good UU. But thats its purpose. with no ocean, no new world, no point.

What do? OK want to keep the theme of portugal as seafaring though going to be hard on a map without oceans.

Make feitoria cheaper (and earlier?) to compensate for the fact that I'd have to build it just for the extra ability since the standard use is pointless and so nobody else will need to spend the hammers. Compare to cothon which is half the price, earlier and delivers similar value in most circumstances.

Carack, i don't know. Its hard since its main purpose, ocean exploration, is gone. How do you make it as valuable as e.g. praetorians or cossacks? Only way I can see is make it good for war in its age, and extend its period. Make it 4,4 rather than 3,3 and in its age it is better at fighting that carvels (most UU are better at fighting than their equivalents) and this means it stays competitive (though no better, and less cargo) than galleons when they come. Navel UU is going to be tricky to make really valuabe, but thats a challenge for portugal but this gives a chance.

Be better discussing if we all thought we might be portugal, like we did with hungry and bulgaria, when we all were interested in the UB and UU being good.

@France and Spain, if we don't sort UU and UB very happy to swap.

[Carthage (DoF)]

The Feitoria is a good building: +1 and +100% foreign trade (this isn't affected by being on a single continent).
It is a bit late, but it is good..

I don't see a problem with giving the carack a 4,4 rather than a 3,3.

PS. There is nothing wrong with being a naval power in the Mediterranean..

[Robert]

Hmm are we going to disable space victory this time too? maybe we should as well as cultural and diplo too. Let us be true to the title: only way is the destruction of foes . just an idea. Also: what about nuclear weapons?

I like the idea!

[Robert]

@Portugal: seems like France wants to trade with you!

[Ottoman Empire (DoF)]

The Feitoria is a good building: +1 and +100% foreign trade (this isn't affected by being on a single continent).
It is a bit late, but it is good..

I don't see a problem with giving the carack a 4,4 rather than a 3,3.

PS. There is nothing wrong with being a naval power in the Mediterranean..

Very good point. Custom House is foreign trade, not inter-continental trade. So there is no reason to change that. I'm ok with boosting the carrack to 4-4, we'll all have to redownload the mod though. Ozzy are you ok changing the carrack (if there are no objections)?