Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[America (DoE)]

Yes, what is up with the China probrem?

[Russia (DoE)]

Robert, any news from China?

[Inca (DoE)]

Give them 12 hrs imo then get a sub. Set up the sub now so that we can get the game rolling in 12 hrs.

[Russia (DoE)]

Yes, we still face the problem with the missing China. We can talk and talk (which is good to my pov) but we need the game going on at some point. I think we must wait for China to return for some more time, but it cant be forever.

2-3 days more? Or?

[Arabia2 (doe)]

What about dropping these talks and focusing on getting the game going asap. China hasn't played for 11 days though he was logged in a week ago. He disappeared without a notice, we can't be sure when they return, we need someone to sub for them.. even if it's a difficult situation. It's hard to suggest a sub from the current players, everyone is biased. Maybe Robert could ask someone who is not playing in this game.

[India (DoE)]

As for Russia, I don't have all their stats, but based on what my spies (of which I have millions) they seem in a very strong position. Combine that with a bunch of lapdogs and this game is done. We will see what happens.

[India (DoE)]

Inca, I agree, in my opinion it was not gentlemanly. on the other hand it was not gentlemanly of china to chokesettle me. nor was it gentlemanly to threaten me from getting other lands. nor was it gentlemanly as I was a much weaker power to upgrade Rifles for Japan (if it was in fact china who did this), nor was it gentlemanly of them to smash the Mongols, twice, nor was it gentlemanly to use their power to stop me from winning the war against Japan to regain my colonies. China got greedy and as a result I was forced into a corner and even then they thought it acceptable to wail on me. Not gentlemanly at all.

Of course burning 4 big cities was a ****ty thing to do, but they really forced me into a corner and a cornered Indian is a dangerous thing indeed.

[Inca (DoE)]

Russia isn't a superpower. Rus is above the other powers (now that China has been laid low), but it's hardly so far above every other power that it's in its own class. I suspect when they return my army to me we'll be almost evenly matched in force. Same for England and Neandor. This isn't like the RL USA where Rus has something like 10-15x the military of the next guy on the list, nor 2-3x the economy of the next one (I think there's a 4-way tie for 1st in that one), plus a fairly unassailable position geographically (they are quite vulnerable there). This is more like the USA in the early 20th century, still one of many major states, a bit above the rest, but still having serious existential threats to consider. Except, unlike that earlier USA, this one is neighbored by a powerful alliance that shares a fairly long, contiguous border with it, and a long-standing hatred of it.

Anyway, I said it was fair play but not "good" play, which doesn't mean it's stupid (perhaps it is, of course), just that it's not "gentlemanly" or whatever. Perhaps I am biased in this.

[Russia (DoE)]

Russia can pull off a space victory in 100 turns I suspect.

You are so far away from the truth... Space needs techs, techs needs money and I am not even a tech leader and my GNP is about 5-th or 6-th. Not to mention I owe money (with good interest I must state) to almost half the world.

P.S. Great rhetoric, India. As always BTW (we having some friction does not means I did not gave you credit for your excellent argumentation)

[Russia (DoE)]

The Axis did leaved amd put their allies exposed at risk and that is a fact for me and for those who follow carefully the international scene. But I prefer we to hold our breath for the aftermath discussion, because if I start in open now, it will spoil some things, which are just not yet to be spoiled, as the game is far from finished.

[India (DoE)]

also, Russia, the alliance you talk of did not leave their allies, they were defeated and unable to do anything about your alliance's continued stomping of their former allies.

[India (DoE)]

I am all for the "keep going spirit", and I am sticking through this. I just don't have any delusions about the outcome. No one has ever left the Russian alliance as leaving the protection of the number 1 power is just unwise and Russia has been number 1 for quite a long time now. The reason that alliance has lasted as long as it has is because there has not been a realistic other alternative. Unipolar world etc. The ACE alliance was crushed, in part by Russia's superior position, all your allies realise that you are the only superpower (China being silent dragon, but not so much anymore) and so does every other civ. The Russian allies see more value in serving in heaven than ruling in hell it seems, but they are still servants. I am always amazed at the lack of ambition of minor allies in diplogames.

Response to Inca: If it is ok for India to be at the level it is at now, why is it not ok for China to be reduced to the same level? The razing of 4 cities do not factor into it, the end results are what counts and the end result is that China is still strong and viable, but they have been reduced from superpower to major power. There is no reason that this should be unreasonable. The lands can be resettled and with advanced tech the cities will grow back quite quickly, but hopefully if I have succeeded, China will never recover its superpower position. Nothing unfair there as they will have to exist as "only" a tier 2 civ.

It seems you have a conservative mindset wishing to maintain the status quo, yet ignoring that the status quo is grossly unfair in the first place makes you seem hypocritical. China is still in a better positions than more than half of civs in the game. They have not been crippled, been made unfair to play or anything else that is the basis for measured war, by any standard applied previously in this game. It was not unfair to cripple the Mongolians for most of the game, why is it unfair to damage China for the last 100 turns? And even if the game lasts longer than 100 turns it won't be much more, Russia can pull off a space victory in 100 turns I suspect.

Keep in mind as well the story basis for my act of mass murder. It is the revenge of India for millennia of Chinese oppression and hatred. They made me into an enemy and laughed at me when I said that doing so was not wise. Should I fight a war to lose? Take cities they would take back the very next turn and then sit back and wait while my civ was ground to dust? Nonsense. I have now evened the odds and still China is more powerful with better tech, bigger army and more allies. I have cut of the giant's leg and will now try to fight him while he is one-legged. If you say it is ok for him to stomp me, but not for me to cut off that foot, then you are either biased and hypocritical or nonsensical.

[Russia (DoE)]

More LOL, guys and gals - the propaganda started to take victims already! See - it is not too hard to change things - you just need to try different approaches.

This is Diplo before all!

[Russia (DoE)]

Now, seriously - you are complaining about Russia having too much allies. I can outright say that trough the game the Axis had more allies than me. But what happened to them? Israel was used and then left alone to face the wrath of your enemies. What happened to India? India was lured to think they have friends, but when the heat came, it turned out that she is all alone. The same thing is happening to Azteca right now - you and France came in your shiny armor, rattling your new fancy weapons, pumped up their army and their self-confidence, imposed upon them your negative attitude about Russia so they never ever said 1 simple "Thank you" for me speaking on their behalf to the Turks and convincing them it will be best if they just stop attacking the Americans and the Azteca and give back the cities they took, put them in troubles using them for getting oil snd we saw what all this lead to. One more seduced, used and left all in blood and tears nation by the Axis.

Now, on the other hand, can you remind me of ANY nation, who was friendly to me and I betrayed or got in troubles and then turn adrift? There is no such. Maybe then it is not a big surprise people will want to be my friends instead of yours?

Being a superpower isnt easy. With the power, (as the Azteca already said) comes responsibility. The Queen's crown isnt light

After all, my story line and playing style was to become a superpower, so I guess I am doing it alright when so many people hate me and so many loves me.

[Inca (DoE)]

My opinion regarding India-China: still rubbish to raze 4 mature late-game cities. Raze 2, capture 2, but razing 4... kind of hard to justify regarding RP too. I'll trust that you didn't know China was absent. Is it fair to do this to them? Probably, yes. Not everything that's fair is "good play" and not everything that's "good play" is fair, though... Perhaps I alone make such a distinction, though.

Regarding Rus and ACE and all Rus's pawns and puppets and ACE's pawns and puppets and how anyone who remotely leans one way or the other becomes a pawn or puppet...

Looking at the demo screens, and looking at the IRS reports, I'm saying this game is far from over, even if there's a sure underdog. Let's see in 10 or 20T how things are before decrying the "end of history"...

Oh, and the Americans had promised me Alaskan territory in exchange for my assistance in getting the Turks to remove themselves from their territory. Perhaps that was not made clear to you, Vikings. Okay. Perhaps the Americans feel that I didn't do as much as I could to get the turks to leave, okay. I never really was sure what was agreed to and expected in that whole mess...

Oh, and what has ACE asked me for, despite saying I'd sell arms to them in the past? Demands for "compensation" from the French for the troops the English used against them. Ridiculous, of course. You want to be trade partners and then you make arrogant demands. No one from ACE has ever asked for a paid arms contract with me. Well, wonder why the Russians and Ottomans have Inca destroyers now... I think I've mentioned a few times publicly that I'll sell to anyone in good standing with Inca. Of course, France wasn't for a long time, and after those arrogant demands I'm not going to rush to get them a good deal or timely delivery...

When you got into the game, I started an embassy in your capital and offered you loans. I don't know what more you expected (apparently, for me to join you in direct conflict against the Russians). You never finished the request, and that was basically the end of our affairs. If you want to complain that the Inca never gave you weapons or money, well, you never asked. I don't just give these away for free, you know... Not to say when someone asks they get what they want. I have accepted requests and turned down requests from the same nations due to differing circumstances and priority requests from others, priorities in my own needs, etc, but there's a very good chance you could have gotten something from me had you been willing to, I don't know, set up an agreement and ask for it. I will preempt you right now by saying I have no spare production at present, but perhaps in 20T we can make a deal.