Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Setup Thread]

[Pinchak]

Can someone post the questions and answers in their entirety? There seems to be like 3 or 4 versions on this page.

[trev]

1 Fully anonymous
2 Settle immediately
3 Settle immediately
4 Report gifts
5 Thread report
6 agree

[Robert]

@Pinchak:

1. Do we spread civs over the globe using 'tiers', or fully anonymous in a random way?
a. use tiers ('best' players packed in Europe, 'least good' players in America, etc.)
b. no, full random anonymous

Now we know it's going to be an Earth map, maybe it changes our vote on 'unexplored new worlds'. Please all vote:
2. Must America be settled from the beginning, or must it be an 'unexplored new world' to be colonized later?
a. Settle it straight away
b. Colonize it later

3. Must Australia be settled from the beginning, or must it be an 'unexplored new world' to be colonized later?
a. Settle it straight away
b. Colonize it later

4. Unit gifting has caused some debates in the past, how do we handle it?
a. No unit gifting at all
b. Allow unit gifting but report all gifts somehow
c. Allow unit gifting

5. If the total vote results of question 4 ends in a 'win' for answer 'b', then how do we organise this?
a. rename gifted units to place the orignal owner in it's name, like: "Spearman (Rome)"
b. thread report
c. some webform

6. Turn timer: Some have commented in their vote that they prefer something between option 'a' and option 'b', and to not make things impossible for the option b, c and d, I suggest:
Let's put the turn timer like this:
1. first 150 hours: 8 hours / turn
2. turn 150-300: 14 hours / turn
3. from turn 300 on: 16 hours / turn

Do you agree:
a. Yes
b. No, use the turn-timer option we voted for in the last vote

[Robert]

Current votes:

1. Do we spread civs over the globe using 'tiers', or fully anonymous in a random way?
a. use tiers [3]
b. full random anonymous [3]

2. Must America be settled from the beginning, or must it be an 'unexplored new world' to be colonized later?
a. Settle it straight away [6]
b. Colonize it later [0]

3. Must Australia be settled from the beginning, or must it be an 'unexplored new world' to be colonized later?
a. Settle it straight away [3]
b. Colonize it later [3]

4. Unit gifting has caused some debates in the past, how do we handle it?
a. No unit gifting at all [2]
b. Allow but report [4]
c. Allow unit gifting

5. If the total vote results of question 4 ends in a 'win' for answer 'b', then how do we organise this?
a. rename gifted units [3]
b. thread report [1]
c. some webform

6. Turn timer: Some have commented in their vote that they prefer something between option 'a' and option 'b', and to not make things impossible for the option b, c and d, I suggest:
Let's put the turn timer like this:
1. first 150 hours: 8 hours / turn
2. turn 150-300: 14 hours / turn
3. from turn 300 on: 16 hours / turn

Do you agree:
a. Yes [4]
b. No [2]

-----------------------

It seems like the 'tier' system is going to something like 50/50 (early prediction).
Perhaps a good alternate that makes everybody happy is: rank all players from 1-18
Then let the least good players pick a civ first, etc.
And the 'best' players get to chose last.

We can do it on a first comes first served base.
So first all of 'tier 4' pick a civ
then all of 'tier 3' pick a civ, etc.

The odds are low that a tier1 civ gets an easy position, but things remain fully anonymous, and every non tier-1 player can chose to go outside of his tier and surprise people by founding 'vatican city'

[OzzyKP]

Ugh, the game is going to be a mess if people don't go with the tier system.

[Robert]

Don't be so pessimistic

[Exploit]

1. Do we spread civs over the globe using 'tiers', or fully anonymous in a random way?
a. use tiers [3]
b. full random anonymous [4]

2. Must America be settled from the beginning, or must it be an 'unexplored new world' to be colonized later?
a. Settle it straight away [7]
b. Colonize it later [0]

3. Must Australia be settled from the beginning, or must it be an 'unexplored new world' to be colonized later?
a. Settle it straight away [3]
b. Colonize it later [4]

4. Unit gifting has caused some debates in the past, how do we handle it?
a. No unit gifting at all [2]
b. Allow but report [4]
c. Allow unit gifting [1]

5. If the total vote results of question 4 ends in a 'win' for answer 'b', then how do we organise this?
a. rename gifted units [4]
b. thread report [1]
c. some webform

6. Turn timer: Some have commented in their vote that they prefer something between option 'a' and option 'b', and to not make things impossible for the option b, c and d, I suggest:
Let's put the turn timer like this:
1. first 150 hours: 8 hours / turn
2. turn 150-300: 14 hours / turn
3. from turn 300 on: 16 hours / turn

Do you agree:
a. Yes [5]
b. No [2]

[Exploit]

Just to give some background to question 4. I mentioned this to RP in an email:

I propose that all gifts of units (of whatever type) have to be reported immediately in a suitable online forum. There are no restrictions on gifts and they can be part of whatever complicated deals of blackmail that you want, and none of that needs reporting (though might make good stories). However, every time you click the 'gift' button in-game you must report what was gifted and to whom immediately.

The purpose of this is not to restrict anything, but to ensure that when we are all weighing up balance and appropriateness in a diplo game we aren't deceived. e.g. many of us would think that small nation A attacking small nation b is perfectly appropriate, but massive nation C attacking small nation B isn't (and might call for response from other nations etc.). However currently massive nation C can gift large amounts of advanced troops to A, which A then uses to attack (I did it myself in BtP). It still looks like small nation against small nation, but it isn't. This rule doesn't stop anything, but just means everyone would know small A is acting really as a proxy for large C, and people can then react as they wish.

And lets be honest, this sort of military support (or emigation in the case of workers/settlers) would never be secret in the real world. During the cold war everyone knew who was getting arms from the USA or soviets. Lets get it public and people might as well also write it up in stories etc. rather than as at the moment everyone having an incentive to keep it secret.

Knowing a (large or small) civ's military strength (homegrown or mercenary) is a function of advisors, espionage, spies, scouts and recon. Why ruin the fun of secret backroom mercenary deals by public declaring them?

As for everyone knowing in the real world about arms deals, who knew about the American Iran-Contra affair until after the story broke? One of many incidents where arms deal are secretly brokered and later exposed. By definition, we have no way of knowing if other secret arms deals actually existed but were never discovered (seems unlikely that every secret arms deal fails to remain a secret).

[Black Knight 427]

I have given it a lot of though and if it is not too late i would like to change my vote for question 1.

1. Do we spread civs over the globe using 'tiers', or fully anonymous in a random way?
a. use tiers ('best' players packed in Europe, 'least good' players in America, etc.)

[St Jon]

I have changed as well.

If Pinchak is to be Tier 3 then I really should be also as I am less experienced and far less skilful than he is.

I realise that IG victory is no count to points but could we restrict it to Domination and Diplomatic - obviously Time - as Space Ships are a pretty common way out of interesting late game wars and Culture can likewise be a quick way to glory?

It was fun in BtP to see Mech Inf deployed in anger as you never need them solo and I doubt they are often used in straight kill or be killed MP games.

[St Jon]

Knowing a (large or small) civ's military strength (homegrown or mercenary) is a function of advisors, espionage, spies, scouts and recon. Why ruin the fun of secret backroom mercenary deals by public declaring them?

As for everyone knowing in the real world about arms deals, who knew about the American Iran-Contra affair until after the story broke? One of many incidents where arms deal are secretly brokered and later exposed. By definition, we have no way of knowing if other secret arms deals actually existed but were never discovered (seems unlikely that every secret arms deal fails to remain a secret).

'Twas what I said. If it is allowed then it is up to the victim to do the spying to find out.

[Pinchak]

1. Do we spread civs over the globe using 'tiers', or fully anonymous in a random way?
a. use tiers [5]
b. full random anonymous [4]

2. Must America be settled from the beginning, or must it be an 'unexplored new world' to be colonized later?
a. Settle it straight away [6]
b. Colonize it later [1]

3. Must Australia be settled from the beginning, or must it be an 'unexplored new world' to be colonized later?
a. Settle it straight away [5]
b. Colonize it later [3]

4. Unit gifting has caused some debates in the past, how do we handle it?
a. No unit gifting at all [2]
b. Allow but report [5]
c. Allow unit gifting [1]

5. If the total vote results of question 4 ends in a 'win' for answer 'b', then how do we organise this?
a. rename gifted units [5]
b. thread report [1]
c. some webform

6. Turn timer: Some have commented in their vote that they prefer something between option 'a' and option 'b', and to not make things impossible for the option b, c and d, I suggest:
Let's put the turn timer like this:
1. first 150 hours: 8 hours / turn
2. turn 150-300: 14 hours / turn
3. from turn 300 on: 16 hours / turn

Do you agree:
a. Yes [4]
b. No [3]

[Pinchak]

Whoa.... some crazy stuff just happened with this website... including it turning to black and white!?!?!

Anyway, a brief explaination...

1. I voted for use of tiers. In hindsight I think it will make for a more balanced game expecially if using a world map. How these "tiers" will be determined is going to be interesting to say the least. I will say I retract my request to be in the bottom tier. I will entertain this concept in good faith.

6. I voted No. I have no problem with early game quick turns, but IMO around turn 200 we should be at 20 hour timer to ensure that as long as a player can make it to their computer at least once a day they will not miss a turn. This is going to be VERY important once wars get underway...

There is my 2 cents. Very much looking forward to this game starting.

[OzzyKP]

1. I voted for use of tiers. In hindsight I think it will make for a more balanced game expecially if using a world map. How these "tiers" will be determined is going to be interesting to say the least. I will say I retract my request to be in the bottom tier. I will entertain this concept in good faith.

[Robert]

Pinchak: This is going to be VERY important once wars get underway...

When there's war every involved party should always play his turn, so when there is a war we will increase the timer anyway.

Maybe we should take another look at the tier-categorisation one everything is settled.
I'll see if I can come up with a system to place everybody as good as possible in a tier.