Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Setup Thread]

[mzprox]

An mzproxless game would be good...

Now I feel hurt.. I took it easy in DoD but now you will see.. you will :P

On the other hand I wanted to say that I won't play in this game. One is enough for me and I won't be able to play in almost all September (so I will need a a sub in DoD). I hope we won't have to wait too long for pitboss support in civ5..even if I'm a bit skeptic about civ5 overall..

[St Jon]

An mzproxless game will be a sad loss.

Who will stand against Prince and Toni?

[Robert]

Who's "Prince"?
btw, deity is in, The Priest. And all the rest are playing better and better anyway.
And we have to convince Ozzy to join the last epic civ4 diplogame as well!

If civ5 sucks we'll play civ4 diplogames forever 8) Like the current civ2 gang 8)

edit: having said that: we need mzprox in!!!!!
a. because he's an amazing guy, honest player with an awesome attitude
b. he must give us a chance to get back on him after DoC!

[Robert]

In the post below I have placed the 2nd draft of the rules.
Not very much has been changed.
This has been changed:

1. normal speed timer instead of epic
2. no huts (instead of with huts)
3. For the voting categories I have used the definition of The Priest.

Regarding the gamescore category.
Some say that it's a game of civ, and the gamescore should matter one way or another way. Others think that including gamescore will block some players from winning the game.

Therefore I suggest a 3rd category: "creativity", this is only open or the bottom half civs (gamescore wise) per month. The gamescore category on the other hand will only award the top half.

so ie. if there are 16 civs, then the top 8 civs get points based on gamescore (best civ 8, 8th civ 1 point)
The bottom 8 civs will get points based on creativity (best civ 8, 8th civ 1 point).
That means:

up to 16 points for storytelling/diplomacy
up to 16 points for roleplaying
up to 8 points for gamescore (top 8 civs)
up to 8 points for creativity (bottom 8 civs)

Both gamescore and creativity only have half the value storytelling and roleplaying does, but it ensures that gamescore keeps important, and the least good gameplayers have a real chance as well, and a real competition going on. It may push bottom civs to play this vatican role, this utter islated role, this north korea role, etc.

What about that?

[Robert]

Welcome to the Setup Thread for "Destiny of Empires" (name by deity!)
A new Pitboss Diplo Game that's supposed to start somewhere in the coming weeks.
Everybody is invited to participate!
If you want to participate: just comment to this thread.

First we'll get a list of players, then we'll move to the discussion of the rules/settings.

Signed up so far:
- Dubhghlas
- Hercules
- Pinchak
- St Jon
- BranksDilly
- Toni
- WarningU2
- Rempedaalops
- Black Knight 427
- deity
- The Priest
- dacole
- amarriner
- 2metraninja
- mzprox (uncertain)
- Robert Plomp

------------------------------------

Below I have placed 4 information sections. ALL ARE DRAFTS/CONCEPTS! Please comment. (use the scrollbar for each section!)

[Robert]

Let's use the coming week to discuss the rules one last round, after that all vote on it, then start it 2-3 weeks, ok?

We all have to agree, that's hard with that many players.
Thus please drop things if it's not that important. We have to get to a concensus.

My 'creative' category for botom civs is completely new. Feel free to discuss that one in detail though.

[Dubhghlas]

I, personally, am not picky. The proposed setup parameters are acceptable, and the rules are not onerous, so I'll be happy to play.

Of course, this will be starting just about when life gets busy again after the summer off, you know.

[Black Knight 427]

I'm ok with everything. Just cant wait to get started.

[WarningU2]

I accept terms of the game and will play.

I would prefer not to play with raging barbs but whatever the majority wants.

If you want me to host the voting form ... let me know.


= WarningU2

[The Priest]

A very good rule set - thanks RP.

Four thoughts from me:

1. It is worth players reading the rule set since there are things there which either are new or were not used in practice in DoC, for example no city trading during war time except with your enemies, no vassels, and all subs have to add sub after their name however temporary. All sensible tweaks as far as i can see.

2. The big change is no tech trading. I think it is worth trying this out. The vouchers stuff was always awkward and produced an odd external impact on the (in)game. I worry a little that without something thought the nations which are at the bottom will fall further behind. Tech trading itself with vouchers didn’t help them, but the system of free techs from way past eras did provide a floor. Though of course even that did benefit leading nations who planned cleverly. So I'm torn. The simplicity of no tech trading is very appealing but there may be an effect we won't like of the bottom civs falling very far behind in the mid to late game.

3. Diplo scoring. Its never easy to work out the best approach but I think the system as laid out by rp sounds good and worth a go. I wouldn't support the extra proposal about score for the top 8 and creativity for the bottom. Its a clever idea and i could live with it but i think the artificiality of the cut off at place 8 will create all sorts of distortions, and more generally it seems to imply and make concrete that some people are in this to win in game while others are there to provide colour. I think its best if all are in and judged on the same basis. I’ve done very well on game score points in the last two games, so this isn’t to my benefit, but even so there are huge benefits to being one of the leading nations in score – so much more room for manoeuvre in game, to influence the world, to be at the centre of diplomacy and world events – those nations don’t need even more benefit.

4. I propose that we have a real penalty as well for breaking the rule about no public accusations (just like we have a real penelty for not voting, which i think is right particularly given the merciful way it is implemented by our long suffering host). Its written in bold in the rules and RP says he will delete but if we actually want people not to, then there needs to be a penalty otherwise if someone feels 'cheated' against there will always be a strong temptation to post an accusation to let people know just what they think, even if it will then be deleted. In DoC we also had a rule of no public accusations but we still had some, with the negative impact on the atmosphere and they make actual conflict resolution harder. So if we believe in the rule about no public ooc accusations, we should back it up with a small points penalty. That way there is a real incentive to not press send.

so there's my thoughts but basically i'm good to go on the proposed rule set.

[Robert]

@The Priest:
2: yes, I have the same worries. But I got the idea that in DoC the top-civs had more benefit from the tech trade system.

4: a penalty would be good, but what kind of penalty? It's also hard to judge. Do we really want to give a penalty to people who just wrote something in the heat of the moment?
I see your point, but maybe the thing is that we must learn to deal with the idea that in diplogaming everybodies reputation will one day or another day be damaged by a conflict.

The beauty of our group is not that we never collide.
The beauty is that we still cling together despite that. It's maybe even better that way.

[trev]

It is a little while since I played a true diplo, not the greatest on writing stories, but I am happy to give it a go if you still want an extra player.

[deity]

It is a little while since I played a true diplo, not the greatest on writing stories, but I am happy to give it a go if you still want an extra player.

bloody brilliant!

[Robert]

@trev: you're most welcome!!

Signed up so far:
1. Dubhghlas
2. Hercules
3. Pinchak
4. St Jon
5. BranksDilly
6. Toni
7. WarningU2
8. Rempedaalops
9. Black Knight 427
10. deity
11. The Priest
12. dacole
13. amarriner
14. 2metraninja
15. mzprox (uncertain)
16. trev
17. Robert Plomp

We may need to explore mods that allow more then 18 players!
I have asked OzzyKP and The Capo to join this for the sake of the last one, and how cool it would be if they would participate!

anyone has experience with these 18+ mods?
I'll look myself for one as well!

[deity]

@trev: you're most welcome!!

Signed up so far:
1. Dubhghlas
2. Hercules
3. Pinchak
4. St Jon
5. BranksDilly
6. Toni
7. WarningU2
8. Rempedaalops
9. Black Knight 427
10. deity
11. The Priest
12. dacole
13. amarriner
14. 2metraninja
15. mzprox (uncertain)
16. trev
17. Robert Plomp

We may need to explore mods that allow more then 18 players!
I have asked OzzyKP and The Capo to join this for the sake of the last one, and how cool it would be if they would participate!

anyone has experience with these 18+ mods?
I'll look myself for one as well!

Excellent.

I've gone off ozzy maps btw