New type of diplo game

[Babylon (DoD)]

There was a chance to save billions of lives.. the game almost ended peacefully and very unexpectedly. Babylon called a vote for diplo victory and almost succeed . It was a very good move as I , and as it seems everyone else was absolutely unaware that He is so close to win. And the proposition only failed because I coincidentaly started to spread hinduism into my cities just 7-8 turns ago, and during this time 7 of my cities were converted. I only did to get extra happiness and the small hammer bonus from the hindu temples..
Now it seems we have to continue building up our armies
But nice try Babylon, really !
(I did not do the exact math, but quite sure they could had won if the vote happens 7-8 turns ago. they had 404 vote, me 100 (raised from about 25) , the rest altogether 83. They required 440 from 587)

Thanks Egypt. I didn't see this at the time.

Yes it was a long and careful plan to build the hindu influence without anyone stopping it. Calling myself 'Hindustan' and signing everything under the name of the 'Great Conclave' was enough I thought to give a basis for religious victory - I've hardly hidden the religious nature of my regieme. But trying to get hinduism into the far off pagan nations, while appearing to be a militaristic regieme, with nobody wondering about the odd missionary here or there, was tricky.

You are right, I very, very, nearly won. Yes 7-8 turns earlier I had the votes and had the hindu influence in almost every nation. But the turn that Roman citizens embraced that true faith - the very same turn! - the Americans captured the chinese city which had had Hinduism for a millenium, and so suddenly there was no Hindu influence in China. By the time a missionary rushed there, yes you had built up the Hindu influence in Egypt and so I narrowly lost the vote.

What I was impressed by was that nobody tried to cheat me out of victory by a city-gifting exploit. Not getting the votes - fair enough - as would have been the case if someone spotted the intention and turned theocrasy or spread Hinduism in their land - they are all legitimate tactics. I wondered though if someone would try to cheat/expoit by city gifting, but they didn't. So to everyone.

Damn the American invasion of China - well of the crucial chinese city on the crucial turn - so much blood shed could have been avoided, and Hindustan would have reigned supreme.

there is certainly no way my backward country is going to win now, but I'm proud to have got so close.

Now all we can look forward to is nuclear holocaust.

[OzzyKP]

What I was impressed by was that nobody tried to cheat me out of victory by a city-gifting exploit. Not getting the votes - fair enough - as would have been the case if someone spotted the intention and turned theocrasy or spread Hinduism in their land - they are all legitimate tactics. I wondered though if someone would try to cheat/expoit by city gifting, but they didn't. So to everyone.

Yea.... it really sucks when you spend weeks and weeks building to a religious victory and coordinate the participation of several other players in the game only to have that religious victory stolen away by the city-gifting cheat...

[Egypt (DoD)]

I don't really like religious victories, I mean the concept, but at least it's quite hard to do against human players, unless they are like me who always forget that religious vicotry even exists as option. i saw your missionaries and I wondered who do you send them to.. why don't you bring them to my cities..do you have an ally, agreement maybe, but I did not see hinduism spreading anywhere..I wanted to ask one day .

About you being backward without chance to win.. I don't think anyone will win this game in a conventional way. no spacship, no one focuses on culture etc. Some big wars expected, maybe some of the old titans will fall, including Egypt (I'm already 3. in score ), the important thing we have fun untill we decide we had enough. I might be wrong though, we shall see.

[Babylon (DoD)]

I agree with you that it is a somewhat strange victory. Against the AI it can be too easy sometimes, though on the other hand the AI is far more circumspect about open borders - human players agree to open borders with everyone as the default.

Its a victory which doesn't rely on being the most technologically advanced / most productive - which both space ship and conquest/domination really revolve around. Therefore, along with cultural, I think it does add to the game by giving at least some relief from the 'big is best' dynamic. It also gives a different religion dynamic - rather than spread to everyone for the shrine income, spread very sparingly for the votes. That also adds variety, although now Babylon would have been better if it had spread religion everywhere for the shrine income.

And no, I don't really think I have no chance to win. That was just bluff. You would put better odds on one of the technologically advanced nations winning, but who knows what will happen.

[The Priest]

RP - something wrong with your server set up? PYT is displaying Grunzen and others from DoE as players in DoD. Could be fun, until their warrirors destroy my tanks.

[Sumeria (DoD)]

Sadly Sumeria must announce that the Chinese nation has ceased to be.

The actions of America and Russia have been barbaric in the extreme to exterminate this once proud and peaceful nation.

Sumeria has done all it could and many Chinese lives have been saved thanks to the gallantry of the Sumerian army. That it lay with my brave young soldiers to save the citizens of their last city was a sorry but the citizenry will enjoy a happier, and safer, life in the new homes that have been constructed for them.

[Robert]

Yea.... it really sucks when you spend weeks and weeks building to a religious victory and coordinate the participation of several other players in the game only to have that religious victory stolen away by the city-gifting cheat...

Absolutely true, and that's as terrible as stealing a religious victory by subbing for 4 civs which then all vote for you

[Robert]

RP - something wrong with your server set up? PYT is displaying Grunzen and others from DoE as players in DoD. Could be fun, until their warrirors destroy my tanks.

the DoE and DoD games have been mixed up in PYT (all those abbreviations... )
PYT doesn't correct that, so some of these nations will just be in our list from now on. Don't worry, their warriors won't haunt you.

[America (DoD)]

Sadly Sumeria must announce that the Chinese nation has ceased to be.

The actions of America and Russia have been barbaric in the extreme to exterminate this once proud and peaceful nation.

Sumeria has done all it could and many Chinese lives have been saved thanks to the gallantry of the Sumerian army. That it lay with my brave young soldiers to save the citizens of their last city was a sorry but the citizenry will enjoy a happier, and safer, life in the new homes that have been constructed for them.

Sumeria once again distorting the truth, Russia and America gave Mongolia the chance to become a stronger nation by merging with China. Instead Sumeria has taken advantage of a Chinese military weakened by American and Russian forces to forcible absorb the Chinese into their huge empire rather than allow the desired merger with Mongolia. It has been an aggressive action by a power which has always been aggressive, which steals technology including advanced weaponry from its neighbours rather than learn its own. The world will need to confront their aggression soon, there can be little doubt that they will soon move onto another neighbour, probably the weakest which is Mongolia, but maybe America. We are building our army to defend against such a scenario and also will not tolerate any further attacks by Sumeria on weaker nations.

[The Priest]

Genuine question.

Are we still playing this as a diplo game with ideas of balance and appropriateness in war, e.g. alliances against smaller alone player-led (not AI) powers. Or has this trasmuted at some point into something else?

[Egypt (DoD)]

I can't answer this truly ooc, because you would know who I am anyway (if you wouldnt know already )
We play diplogames differently, some thinks the primary focus of diplogames is diplomacy, big, strong alliances are just reward of good diplomacy and so perfectly fine, for me other aspects just as important, like "balance", though there is no perfectly balanced scenario ever.

As for the question: I don't see any sign that anything would change in this game, so I suggest we just play it out, I say no more rules, let's play untill we think it's worth continuing. (by rules I mean fairplay and such, the rules of war still apply)

[Robert]

I've already been eliminated, so I have no opinion here.

[Sumeria (DoD)]

Sumeria once again distorting the truth, Russia and America gave Mongolia the chance to become a stronger nation by merging with China. Instead Sumeria has taken advantage of a Chinese military weakened by American and Russian forces to forcible absorb the Chinese into their huge empire rather than allow the desired merger with Mongolia. It has been an aggressive action by a power which has always been aggressive, which steals technology including advanced weaponry from its neighbours rather than learn its own. The world will need to confront their aggression soon, there can be little doubt that they will soon move onto another neighbour, probably the weakest which is Mongolia, but maybe America. We are building our army to defend against such a scenario and also will not tolerate any further attacks by Sumeria on weaker nations.

This is an outright lie. Sumeria stands as a beacon of truth and honesty in a World dominated by deceit and distortion. An aggressive nation you call us! Never has Sumeria acted out of anything but self-defence. France and Maya attacked us and were destroyed; neither war was desired but there was no choice. No other nation has Sumeria had any dispute with.

The hypocracy of America knows no bounds. They steal swaths of defenceless Chinese lands and then claim that the remaining scraps are to be given to Mongolia. How is Mongolia ever going to defend these generous gifts? Those cities will remain Mongolian just for as long as it is 'convenient' to the Russo-American Pact. It is an excuse to steal whilst appearing to be benefactors! At least Sumeria can hope to garrison South China against the day when Mongolian ownership ceases to be 'convenient' but for that we need a base. You will note that only 1 Chinese city has been captured by Sumeria. How many has America seized?

[Egypt (DoD)]

I've already been eliminated, so I have no opinion here.

on the contrary.. it just shows how much diplo is left. But don't worry I will avenge you :P

[Sumeria (DoD)]

Genuine question.

Are we still playing this as a diplo game with ideas of balance and appropriateness in war, e.g. alliances against smaller alone player-led (not AI) powers. Or has this trasmuted at some point into something else?

As with Egypt I cannot really reply OOC.

I believe that we passed the point of balance and appropriateness some time ago. I know full well what is coming my way and it wont be balanced but given the type of nation that Sumeria is it probably will be appropriate.

We may not have had much IC posting in this, I don't think Deity ever intended that anyway, but there has been lots of diplomacy behind the scenes. Personally I wont mind it when I am destroyed, I know I will be fairly soon, as at least I know that I can go down fighting.