The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[Robert]

St Jon:
- you can change your apolyton password in your profile somewhere, I think.
- you can change your game password by ending your turn, then retire, thenp pick your civ again and set a new password.
I don't think there are more passwords then that.

Regarding the anonymous sub, we don't know which civ is being played by Pinchak, only Ozzy knows. Ozzy will tell the new player, so we will know who the new player is, but not what civ he's playing.

Yes, some rules are complex, unfortunately we learned from BtP that sometimes more detailed rules are needed.
If you have suggestions for making the rules less complex (but still covering everything it covers right now) please say so.

I can start to remove the ooc judgement from the rule list and place it in a secion on it's own.

I think that both anon and non anon accounts should be allowed to post here. Sometimes you want to say something ooc without giving up our identity. (like: "I'm going to be away for a week" may give away who you are)

[Robert]

mzprox, the current rules allow:
- techs to be given away (by giving a tech to someone)
- techs to be traded for techs (by trading a tech for a tech)

If I'm correct you ask for:
- trading a tech for a voucher (civ x gives tech and loses 1 voucher, civ y gives 1 voucher, which is being gained by civ x)

I've never intended this rule to forbid that, but I can see that it does so though.
I wanted to eliminate voucher trades for cities, money, end of war treaties, 2 vouchers for 1 tech, etc. etc.

If the others agree I can include the option to trade a tech for a voucher.

[St Jon]

Arabia; please just use the Apolyton PM system. Otherwise other players also have to register an anonymous mail account.

Pinchak has pm'ed me that he is abandoning this game. He dislikes the rules and thinks it's too complex. I'm not going to try to convince him to stay with us.

So we need a new player.
Ozzy, I'm going to let you find out which civ Pinchak was. Can you sub for him for the time being?

Everyone: please look around for a perm player! It would be cool if we can find someone before turn 2 starts!

I'm in and will stay in, barring AoG, but I think the numbers of P/W's and rather overly complex rules are a downer. I would like to have Pinchak in the game as he is both a competent player and a good contributor to the Story Thread.

If he will not play then can we have a genuinely ANON sub rather than a publicly disclosed one? I.E. Can it be solely be done by PM and not by answer to a Thread that we all can read. Respect for ANON really does need to be observed and real ID's on the Story Thread do need to be deleted. Likewise, real ID's should always be used on the ORG Thread.

Regardless, I still want to know how to change all of these frigging P/W's to the only one I ever use! I am a very old man now and cannot hold much in my memory and so will be a pushover in the game but I will struggle yet further if I have to try and remember more than the Civ I am playing yet alone different P/W's - I will find it hard enough to recall my DoC username.

[mzprox]

I'm ok with trading techs with a voucher. I give you a tech, I lose a voucher. I am quite against I give you a voucher and a tech for a tech. That was just too complicated to deal with.

Who would do that? if i give a tech and receive a tech then both of us used up one voucher. What I'm suggesting that we should leave in the option to give your voucher to someone if that player use it to give you a tech for that voucher- it's actually a gift. the player who had the voucher receives a free tech. Obviously it would help the less advanced players because the advanced ones could use up their vouchers for 1 to 1 trade while those who cant offer any worthy tech still could have the vouchers and the chance to receive techs.
If we state that the traded vouchers must be used up immediately then it cannot be exploited. ( I did not really liked those trades in btp where one player gave two vouchers and received a single tech for them-1 voucher to cover the trade, the other was a free to use one for the more advanced player, potentially making him more advanced while the trade cost him nothing- I think this is the reason why Robert wants them to be untradeable this time, but imo we should keep the option)

[bamf226]

I'm ok with trading techs with a voucher. I give you a tech, I lose a voucher. I am quite against I give you a voucher and a tech for a tech. That was just too complicated to deal with.

[mzprox]

Nooooooo. I'd rather push a thumbtack under my nail than deal with the hassle of policing voucher trades. That was a serious pain in the last diplogame.

Well.. if you read the rules the vouchers are still in however their use is more limited and i belive the old system could help the less advanced civs while forbiding the trade eliminates that possibility.

[bamf226]

The fair paly vote sounds odd to me.. I dont really understand how it will work except when we use it as a tool of punishment.

If I notice a civ going above and beyond in gameplay, I'm going to give points for it. If I see somebody being an ass, I'm deducting points. If you post 17 stories a day, points deducted. Fair play is going to come into focus when war times hit. Are demands for ceasefire appropriate? Does the person continue bombarding the other civ instead of talking about peace?

- I think vouchers should be tradeable as they were in btp- maybe we could ad an extra thing: voucher can only be given away if it's used up in the same trade.

Nooooooo. I'd rather push a thumbtack under my nail than deal with the hassle of policing voucher trades. That was a serious pain in the last diplogame.

[bamf226]

Pinchak has pm'ed me that he is abandoning this game. He dislikes the rules and thinks it's too complex. I'm not going to try to convince him to stay with us.

Too complex? How so? Connect to plomp.eu:2062, pick civ, enter password, play turn. Wasn't very complicated at all.

[mzprox]

Since we have more than one month till the first vote and untill the techtrade becomes avaible (someone needs to invent alphabet first) I think we should keep the discussion and suggestions open in these matters because I'm not entirely satisfied with the current state of rules
And no I dont really have better ideas, so if they stay as they are , fine.. but maybe we can make them better.

Here are some of my concerns:
As some others had suggested already I dont think that we should separate the diplo and story category. We could have a single score for them and increase it's value.
My reasoning:
-The most important one: it could make the vote more easier and more fair ( in my view) It would be up to the players to decide who they reward with their points and why: did they make nice pictures, did they accomplish something either with diplo or military means. Sometimes it's just hard to give a diplo score to someone who hasnt posted any diplo related stuff in the month, (they still could had been very active in diplo via pm-s, but if no post about it most of us wont know about it). So players could post long text stories, newspapers, youtube videos, comics, diplo letters, military maps etc.. -the main thing is to post something (if you want points)- and then it's up to the other players to decide how they liked those.
-Sometimes it's just hard to separate these things, different players have different preferences. I dont really write stories but many public letters-they could fall into the diplo category but actually I tell stories with them too.

The fair paly vote sounds odd to me.. I dont really understand how it will work except when we use it as a tool of punishment.


About tech-trade

- I think vouchers should be tradeable as they were in btp- maybe we could ad an extra thing: voucher can only be given away if it's used up in the same trade.
For those who not really familiar with the voucher system in BtP: it allowed less advanced civs to get tech gifts from the more advanced ones for their vouchers.
example: I'm being a poor and backward civ, but have a voucher. I give that to my strong ally who can use up that voucher and give me a tech gift, or sell me for a reasonable money- So for the advanced civ this trade would cost nothing.

I think it's ok to have less vouchers than we had in btp. I'de really like to have something like this: we start with 3-5 and then get extra 2 in every era. With this we could avoid that some civs waste their vouchers for techs like fishing or some player get too much ahead of others by excessive techtrading. Ofc we should have to keep track of the tech eras but we have to do that anyway for the 8b rule..
..which leads to next point..
We have to brainstorm about how we want to make that system work (ie. allowing tech trade from two eras before the 4 most advanced civs' current tech level). I'd rather not report when i advanced into the next era-and i may forget it involuntarily etc.

hmm i finish for now before it gets even longer

[Byzantium (DoC)]

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[Black Knight 427]

Any luck finding a new player yet?

[Robert]

http://plomp.eu/civpicker.nsf/login

[Rasputin]

ok and link to the civ picker site for getting my pasword for civ sign in ?

[Robert]

Welcome back!!
You made it in time since the first turn isn't even over yet!

civ4:beyond the sword, patch 3.19
I've updated the first post with this info.

[Rasputin]

ok looks like good luck , my computer is back, now whic hversion of civ we running what is the latest patch?