The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[India (DoC)]

Can't join the game :/

[Rasputin]

It is a shame to see Ras go but not a surprise.

yes when you cant communicate with me i guess it is no surprise.

You get what you want .

[Rasputin]

That seems rather sad. After all according to the current turn's score there are 8 civs above you and 6 below - so basically in the middle. Sounds to me like your skills are pretty good. But I guess if you have lost the interest, there isn't much point just continuing, but good on you for announcing it like you have and ensuring there is a smooth succession. Shame though.

No my interest still here , which is why i would prefer to continue, but every nation i contact wont deal with me. and this fine for them , but i dont hav ethe abiltiy to make them like me . the longer this goes the less fun it will be for me. either people wil lchoose to ignore me for full game or worse invade me to shut me up.

as i said i happy to continue, but for my civ to be fairly treasted by the other players it needs a leader who is respected and can negotiate.

[Robert]

Current Gamescore


Gaps between all positions



Relative gap between positions 1 and 2, 1 and 6, etc.


Analyses: the relative gap between the first and the last civ is decreasing!
There are two big absolute gaps, between civ 3 and 4 and between civ 5 and 6.
These gaps are still growing.

[Orb (DoC)]

It is a shame to see Ras go but not a surprise.

[Inca (DoC)]

I am sorry for error is mine. I only read ancient is free not other rule so am surprised and pleased by gift from india. i wonder why it is given without asking but then maybe close neighbor want me sweet?

[The Priest]

That seems rather sad. After all according to the current turn's score there are 8 civs above you and 6 below - so basically in the middle. Sounds to me like your skills are pretty good. But I guess if you have lost the interest, there isn't much point just continuing, but good on you for announcing it like you have and ensuring there is a smooth succession. Shame though.

[Rasputin]

ALL

I think my poor civ will be needing a Perm sub as it seems that i am now cut off due to my poor negotiating skills.

It is to the detriment of my civ and there fore is restictive.

Deity or Capo please step forwards and PM me.

I see no reason to continue when i have shown i cant organsie a booze up in a brewery.


I will of course continue to play till a PErm sub is found.

Thanks for this.

[India (DoC)]

India: notice how I wrote "Technically India lost a voucher..." but then continued in the next line saying that we shouldn't go zealoat over this, and suggested a better solution.

Ok, I'm misunderstood then . I will be more carefull in the future

[Robert]

India: notice how I wrote "Technically India lost a voucher..." but then continued in the next line saying that we shouldn't go zealoat over this, and suggested a better solution.

But from now on, especially now everybody has been warned we all should keep in mind that somebody has to pay for a mistake!
I'd advise: never offer the same trade to two different civs at the same time! (or accept a trade from civ C while you just offered it to civ B)

again I didnt do anything wrong by accepting that trade..

No, you didn't do anything wrong, but technically you lost a voucher when the Inca accepted the trade you had already made with Greece.
But once again, I do not advocate you to lose that voucher, let's just fix this by Inca offering you a free tech in return somewhere in the future.

[The Priest]

Two thoughts from me:

1. India, you didn't intend to do anything wrong, but in fact you did give a tech to the Inca when the rules say you can only exchange them one-for-one. I don't think it matters in this case, and particularly because the intention was completely honourable, I think we should just pass on. But I too noted the Inca's post and was about the post saying 'hang on ancient techs need to be exchanged not given away'. I think that there is a logic behind the exchange not give away rule, but logic or not, its the rule and if we are to change it, we need to change it so that we can all give away (and so gain favour with other nations).

2. I think it is a really worthwhile reminder from RP of the oddities and dangers of the in-game trading system. The situation RP describes in which an earlier as yet unresponded to trade offer was responded to causing an unintended cease-fire to a recently declared war, basically destroyed BtP. It kind of recovered afterwards, but never really did, since the accusations which came from it poisoned everything. Nothing can be done about it, and fortuantely this case doesn't matter at all, and doesn't need any action as a result, but its great to have the reminder for us all. In the end we have to accept responsibility for the trading options we give out in-game even if they don't end up working out as we expected. (After all that is what Arabia and Russia had to accept recently).

[India (DoC)]

Forget it Robert, I hadnt lost any voucher because I didnt do anything wrong.
I had offered polythiesm for archery and even wrote to Inca that this is a voucher free trade.
Next I saw was that my trade with Inca probably hadnt worked because Greece was offering me archery for meditation. again I didnt do anything wrong by accepting that trade..

[Robert]

Pitboss trades are quite dangerous!
It's better to agree upon trades in PM's b/c the nature of the pitboss game can have ackward results.

Example:
- Civ A Offers World map for World map to Civ B
- Civ A logs into the game again before Civ B could login
- Civ A declares war
- Civ B logs in and receives a World Map and cease fire for World Map and cease fire trade
(we had this in BtP and it resulted in quite a mess!)

Example:
- Civ A offers Philosophy for Feudalism to Civ B
- Civ A logs in again before Civ B logins, in the meanwhile Civ C offered Feudalism to Civ A for Civil Service, Civ A Accepts.
- Civ B logs in and accepts Philosophy for nothing

Who now lost the voucher?

----

Technically India now lost a voucher b/c it gave a tech to Inca with nothing in return.
I don't think any of us should go zealoat on this. I'd say: just let's remember this and Inca should return a (free) med tech to India when they are released.

But please, all keep in mind that trading with a 3rd party doesn't remove your offer to a 2nd party! This includes resources, gold, techs and whatever else we can come up with!

[India (DoC)]

While I see why these 1 to 1 trades are preferable it just complicates things. Current situation: I have offered a trade to the Incas. (I only needed archery). Next time I loged in I had a tech offer from Greece-something for archery-which I had accepted- I didnt know then why the trade with the Incas hadnt worked-as it turned out He havent logged in since my offer-when they did I had already had archery-so maybe they should had refuse that offer if they see they were not giving anything in return-but doesnt really make difference.

[Robert]

IMPORTANT

All remember that ancient techs can only be traded in tech for tech trades!!
You can't give a tech to another nation without receiving a tech in return!

Allowed:
China gives Archery to Vietnam
Vietnam gives Masonry to China

Allowed:
China gives archery and priesthood to Vietnam
Vietnam gives polytheism and masonry to China

NOT allowed:
China gives archery to Vietnam
Vietnam gives nothing in return

NOT allowed:
China gives archery and masonry to Vietnam
Vietnam gives (only) polytheism in return

This is what Rule 4b says:
4b. When 4 civs have advanced to the next age (ancient, classical, medieval, renaissance, industrial, modern, future) all techs of the age before the past age can be traded freely in a 1 tech for 1 tech trade without the need to spend vouchers.