The Dance of Civilizations [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Setup Thread]

[Robert]

Space Ship victory is imho the most complete victory. One needs to be advanced, strong and diplomatic.

[mzprox]

Sign me up.


A few comments:

-I think we should have limited techtrade. Somehow we should let the ability to gift techs in the game to help the less advanced civs. (for example everyone gets 1-2 voucher/era and at some points we could give extra to the less fortunate civs based on score)

-I wouldnt ban unit gifting/upgrade service, I think it just should be taken more seriously. If someone upgrades my enemies' units, even if he did that before that enemy attacked me it will ruin our realtionship-may be a casus belli.

-What I would ban is gifting cities temporary to abuse the system. If you want upgrades then you should send your units where you want the upgrade, not just gifting a pop1 city somewhere to make the upgrades for you.

-I'd like to see a dsiclaimer on the "measured war concept".. or just drop it altogether.. I dont know.

-Nice to see new players, I hope everyone realize that this is not like other multi civ games where winning is the first and only priority. Dont join if you are not sure that you'd stay till the end even if your civ is in bad position.

-I dont know if its possible to use the world builder after the game start. If it is we should have this option. We could have fix some errors in BtP. Also, especially in the beginning when a civ drops I'd completely eliminate it, making their lands almost useless to avoid problems.

-game speed: I like epic, but maybe we should use normal this time.

-make it clear that abusing the espionage system is not allowed

[Toni]

Latest Player list:

1. Robert
2. Pinchak
3. Toni
4. Black Knight
5. St Jon
6. Jeroen
7. The Priest
8. Rempedaalops
9. Hendriks de Infiedielen Dooder
10. bamf226
11. mzprox

[Toni]

Robert anyway you can get hold of Capo or Lz? Or Glohithia/Mike?

Heraclitus why don't you join the game?

[Glohithia]

Toni, I sent you a PM. I cant commit to play, just too much stuff going on. But I plan to lurk away and follow this game like I did for BtP

[Jeroen Schweitzer]

make it clear that abusing the espionage system is not allowed

How would that work?

[mzprox]

Making any deals which would make stealing techs from you easier. It's hard to prove btw that was it intentional or not. The worst exploit could be if they exchange some low pop cities for a short time and steal the techs from each other.

[Jeroen Schweitzer]

mzprox, you were in BtP, right? Who were you playing (I don't have everyone mapped yet)

[Robert]

I advise against inviting LzPrst, he has not finished any game while he was in 5 at least.
I say that with pain in my heart because he's an awesome player and I really like him a lot.

I'll pm The Capo.

@Jeroen: mzprox was Japan

[The Priest]

I think that lots that mzprox says is right.

However, I think banning things gets very difficult (a) to make sure we aren't banning things that could be legitimate and (b) sometimes hard to enforce.

I would go for all sorts of things having to be reported publicly. Everyone can then judge whether they think people are playing fair or abusing things and if the latter can punish them either in votes or in alliances etc. in game.

[Robert]

Proposed changes to the rules:
(please comment if you disagree, name in that case the number and if possible the reason)

1a. Trading away a tech costs 1 voucher. All players get 15 vouchers. Vouchers cannot be traded away. (this means that civs can give away 15 techs or trade 15 techs for 15 techs)
1b. Techs known by at least 60% of the civs can be freely traded for techs known by at least 60% of the civs. Always in a 1 tech for 1 tech trade.
1c. All tech trades must be reported in the Tech/Units trade thread. For 1a trades, only the 'giver(s)' must be reported. For 1b trades the explicit deal must be reported.

2. City trades are allowed. Receiving a city back that you traded away in the past 50 turns is NOT allowed, unless requested in the org thread and nobody objects for ooc reasons.

3. 5+ Unit giftings per 30 turns must be reported in the Tech/Units trade thread. (non combat units, like workers, settlers, great people, are excluded from this rule)

4. No espionage tech-trade deals may be made. (ie. I put espionage 100% on you, you put espionage 100% on him, he puts espionage 100% on me, then we steal each other's techs cheaply)

5. The judges system: The top 3 (not involved) diplo-score (or game score during 1th month) players judge in ooc conflicts, unless any of the involved parties rejects any of them. In such cases the next top players will judge. (this is a small change of the system, the system works for the rest as described in the first post)

6. Map like the concept map I made, only better and bigger, though not as big as BtP. All civs on avg 9 cities, with room for oversea colonization.

7. When 51% of the players for ooc-reasons think that a war should end then it must end. This to avoid that civs will be cripled too much by a war. The terms of the end of war are in such a case: immediate peace for 50 turns. It is advised for both parties to agree on the best possible terms for peace before this happens.
Such an end of war must be organized in the org thread. (ie. players must announce their opinion regarding the end of a war in the org thread).

Reasons for such an end-of-war vote are only OOC! Not IG (like: my allie is losing this important city)

8. Fair Play rating comes in place of the Military Strategy rating.
Fair Play gives civs a chance to gain an award for in-game charity but also will reward players who are willing to accept stuff they dislike ooc. It's actually a way to punish uncooperative people who can't be punished ooc

9. We vote on "Normal speed" or "Epic speed", if "normal speed" then first 60 turns are 8h per turn, if "Epic speed" then first 100 turns are 8h per turn

10. Portugal is not allowed

11. It is not allowed to reveal anybodies anonymous identity or to speak about these identities in private or public. During the game people may get more and more clues, but still keep their mouth shut.
Punishment for breaking this rule: losing 25% of the Fair Play Rating (for the entire game) per violation. (reason for punishment: no way to undo such a violation, unless someone finds a way to purge the info from our brains)

12. The player who achieves the In game victory player gains #1 position game-score position, no matter how much game-score he really has. (ie. Belgium 2290, Austria 2108, Canada 2085, Mexico 1984 VICTORY, New Zealand 1849; score: Mexico 5, Belgium 4, Austria 3, Canada 2, New Zealand 1)

@Toni: I think Ozzy's score table is too complicated to manage for such a huge game. Not to mention that most of it is being covered by gamescore or diploscore in this system.

[Robert]

I've done a large ammount of barking regarding players who aren't welcome b/c of the past.
I'm done barking now. (in dutch we say: "Barking dogs don't bite"). I hope the barking has had some effect to the game attitude of all of us. ('us' includes 'me')

Everybody is welcome to join.

[Toni]

Great Work Robert!!

Lets now all read the above carefully. This is the time for us to agree/disagree. As Robert said feedback is more than welcomed!! This is a community game (Goal is: Fun and enjoyment for all !!!!)

SO please do say what is on your mind

P.S Cheers Mike!!! Got your pm.

[Robert]

I've made small changes to the rules 2 and 3 and a better explanation of the rules 1, 4 and 5, in the post above.

[bamf226]

Overall, I like all of the proposed rules. If I understand correctly we vote on the following categories during the game:

• diplomacy
• story
• fair play

[b][color=red]
1b. Techs known by at least 60% of the civs can be freely traded for techs known by at least 60% of the players. Always in a 1 tech for 1 tech trade.

I'm all for this as long as long as someone keeps up with the list of freely tradeable techs.