Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread V]

[St Jon]

:middlefinger:

I reneged on some resource for 10 turns?!? Oh, surely THAT makes me a liar and untrustworthy.

I didn't deliver riflemen? You never told me where to send them, and when I asked you said it was too late.

I took a strong stance to both Rome and Sparta so that the game wouldn't degenerate into the strongest sticking together. I had good friends with Korea, Khmer, and before you took them over, Russia.

So before you go into a long dissertation about why my civ fell, check your facts. Maya was the only interesting thing in this game, and it is tragic that it eventually contributed to their downfall.

That was not the first lie. You even attempted to extract Recourse from Russia upon gifting Mayaz - AN AGREED SETTLEMENT TO THE JAPAN DISPUTE NOT A TRADE - and as to where to send Riflemen I have your PM's so don't insult me with that!

I did offer Russian friendship, I did offer you a fabulous opportunity to turn your two biggest enemies against each other which, if nothing but a few of their shiny new Destroyers had been sunk and a few Fisheries been pillaged had resulted would have helped you, could have given you a wonderful chance to turn a skirmish War into a real one! If you had attacked Sparta then Rome would had to have taken the main chance and gone for Sparta as well. Instead you chose isolationism and lies.

I gave you the very best chance Maya ever had of breaking one of the major powers in the game. Sparta could no better have defended itself against Rome/Maya/Russia than you can against Sparta/Rome! Maya would have benefited hugely! Rome would have benefited, but the cost would have been great, and Russia would have benefited, in its' own small way, but Maya would have been the biggest winners of all!

I have honestly never seen such a short-sighted approach in an MP game. I repeat that the fault only lies with your strategy, tactics and diplomacy not with any malpractice or twisting of diplo-game rules or decorum. If this has been your approach from the start then this is just ‘chickens come home to roost’!

BTW. In terms of game interest. I did initiate a War and did create ‘something happening’ so your arguments are specious there. Just because the major powers had chosen to do nothing for a long time does not exclude a minor power from doing its’ best to make something happen!

[Robert]

From now on I'll be using my real name "Robert Plomp" on these forums, instead of "CyberShy". That has everything to do with the executive changeover of Apolyton.

Regarding the posts above, let's try not to bring in-game arguments out-of-character!

[OzzyKP]

Good luck CS! (RP!)

[St Jon]

From now on I'll be using my real name "Robert Plomp" on these forums, instead of "CyberShy". That has everything to do with the executive changeover of Apolyton.

Regarding the posts above, let's try not to bring in-game arguments out-of-character!

Good Luck Cyber/Robert!

Does that mean anyone who beats you gets a lifetime ban? :

[Robert]

Thanks Ozzy and Jon!

Does that mean anyone who beats you gets a lifetime ban?

[Pitboss Maya]

If you had attacked Sparta then Rome would had to have taken the main chance and gone for Sparta as well. Instead you chose isolationism and lies.

Correction: Had I gone for Sparta, Rome would have invaded me. Your imagined seneriro, while interesting, does not make logical sense. Why would Rome attack Sparta when they could invade a weaker Maya and gain land next to their existing nation as opposed to across the sea?

[St Jon]

As a matter of idle curiosity, who were the Starnorod and Prabul? I imagine Prabul must have been original Portugal, correct me if I am wrong, but Starnorod?

[deity]

RIP Cybershy

[classical_hero]

Hopefully you run this site better than you have this game.

[Robert]

Hey, the game is still running, quite an achievement considering the difficult circumstances, but: yes, good call

[St Jon]

Isn't it time for a May Story Thread?

[The Capo]

Hopefully you run this site better than you have this game.

LOL. Classic line.

[Pitboss Maya]

It would not be right in a diplo game for Sparta and Rome to be "at war" for the rest of the game

Sparta and Rome both broke ingame peace treatys, and broke OOC "rules" (debatable, see quote from the diplogame guide below). They were warned that if they partook in such underhanded actions that I would respond with the only recourse I have, which is to deny peace thus ensuring a price paid for said actions. I have every right to not end the war, and to even hint that I should be removed from the game for not agreeing to peace is going into some very scary territory from a game integrity stance. Not that there is much of that left anyway.

From Ozzy's Diplogame Guide... <-- (big joke IMO)

6.2.3 Measured war
War must be measured. Take maybe 2-3 cities and then sue for peace. Taking capitals or major wonder cities is also very discouraged, though allowed if you intend to give them back after the war in exchange for reparations. This is where colonial territory comes in. India and China may go to war and China may capture part of mainland India and sue for peace. Rather than holding onto this important piece of the India homeland, China returns that territory and India gives up some overseas possessions. Wars should be waged for tactical gains, not to cripple an opponent.

So much for "measured war". I like to call this section of the manual "the insurance policy" for certain players. Rest assured if what happened to Maya happened to certain others there would be screaming, hollering, and reloads.

In my case, players justify the destruction of my civ because of my past military actions (they were "measured war" btw if you are looking for an example of measured war), and talk of possibly removing me from the game because I don't want to agree to peace.

For the record, I think the whole concept of "measured war" as outlined in Ozzys guide is problematic. Again, another ill defined "rule" which gets trampled in some cases, and staunchly upheld in others.

FYI, I have one mainland city remaining, and a useless island city. Try not to fault me if I'm not logging in faithfully every single turn.

[Pitboss Maya]

Also, I think it is bad form (Rome and Sparta to a lesser degree) writing about how my people are happy to be be "freed" from Mayan rule. If you had paid any attention to my story line you would realize that Mayans (and former Koreans) under Mayan civics were perhaps the happiest people in Terra who adored their government and religion.

I understand you are trying to justify your invasions by painting them as some sort of "liberation", but it really just doesn't fit the game history at all. I guess you are banking on the fact that most people in this game don't pay much attention to the story lines.

Let me assure you, the Mayans and Koreans are APPALLED that they have lost their freedom and sovereignty. Writing that you liberated them is dishonest to the game history.

[The Capo]

Let me assure you, the Mayans and Koreans are APPALLED that they have lost their freedom and sovereignty. Writing that you liberated them is dishonest to the game history.

From a storyline perspective this is absolutely the case. The Mayan government and people have been friends to the Koreans since Wang Geon's daughter became married to the King of Tikal/Maya. They share the same two religions (in fact an ENTIRE post was made about how their religion and culture stemmed from the same place and belief set). It was commonly believed throughout Korea, particularly at the end of the Imperial period, that the Greeks were strongarming them. It was the Maya who supported this uprising against the Greeks, it was the Mayan government (the very same as now BTW) that supported the Korean peasants who were protesting the Greek-Korean friendship under their last Emperor. I understand the position of justifying one's wars though, but twisting hundreds upon thousands of years of history is in bad form in my opinion.

Korea though, has never had any trouble with the Romans. But I'd imagine that, based on the history that was written, the Korean people would certainly not see an invading Greek army as a liberation in any capacity. To be sure there would probably be some (perhaps if you wrote that they were trying to reinstall the nobility you would have noble Koreans supporting them, or something to that effect) but to say that the people of Korea themselves would welcome the Greeks as liberators is just unfair to the Mayans and the history forged between the Koreans and Mayans. Again though, there are probably SOME segments of Korean society that would welcome Greek invaders (as there are in real history, see Vichy France). But your (Greek/Roman) story would have been more vibrant if this was lineated rather than assuming everyone would consider a foreign and violent invasion as a liberation is a little ridiculous. Particularly when you LITERALLY liberated nothing, but simply conquered and occupied the country.

EDIT: Also considering your video speech that you made on the walls of Knossos, I highly doubt the Koreans would ever see the Greeks as anything more than arrogant imperialists.

I know I'm not in the game, but I figure at least some opinion on the matter from me in this case is warranted.