BTS Strategy Thread

[Berzerker]

I haven't been playing civ 4 bts mp much and I'm getting slaughtered so I'm trying to learn from my mistakes and figure out how to attack rather than sit back and wait to be attacked. That may sound nonsensical but what I lack is practice (and know how) in attacking human opponents with faster connection speeds

For example, I tried to start my turn with an attack on a weakly defended city (I had enough for the attack) but my opponent was able to reinforce the city before (or during?) my attack even though it was my first move. I'm pretty sure he was baiting me into attacking him by keeping the city weak while he was massing 15-20 macemen for an attack on me, so my attempt to take his city after he declared war was futile, but I cant have that happening if I'm gonna compete. So I have some questions:

1) do pre-ordered units move first before we move the free units manually? Rush buys appear before any attack.

2) if so, does this mean attacks like mine (catching a weak city off guard) should be pre-ordered? The attack would have needed to be pre-ordered from 2 turns before the actual attack, one to enter his territory and the next to the city.

3) If my attack was pre-ordered and his reinforcements were not (I'm sure they were, we try to play fast and he knew I was trying for his city) would my attack face only the units he had in the city on the prior turn (plus maybe a rushed unit)?

4) what happens if my attack was pre-ordered and his reinforcements are pre-ordered?

[The Capo]

Yeah I'd like to know too, because I also suck.

[Berzerker]

this aint just for my questions, I didn't see a strategy thread so this is open for any all discussion

I gotta learn to get rid of trees/jungle next to my main/border cities. Two games in a row I paid for leaving defensive terrain next door. My problem is I dont worry about it much in SP and I dont build enough workers. I'm inclined to build scouts if possible and start exploring while my city grows until I can whip a settler, but I'm slow building a 2nd worker after that.

C;mon guys, where's these veterans and all their tips?

[rah]

The main thing that's happening to is a newb issue.
The last unit or group that you move at the end of a turn can not be moved until x number of seconds into the next turn. This lag was put in to make it harder to do a double move before the enemy can attack. Also preset orders seem to be canceled when combat is a result.
So one trick is to not have the unit you're going to attack with first the next turn move last in the prior turn.
Pre ordered turns are not executed until that unit is cycled too.

If I need a unit to be moved first or a stack (usually in reinforcements) I'll have that stack green to go (and have other units moved afterwards) before my turn ends. If that units is highlighted when the turn changes it should be first in the cycle and you should be able to issue the order prior to another player selecting a stack and moving.

Also group your units in a stack so you can quickly select and stack attack. i.e have you seige units grouped together for quick bombardment and you macement together to follow up the seige units quickly before the opponent can reinforce or attack out. We have players that still attack unit by unit and wonder why their force is decimated before the can attack. If you don't want to attack with that GG unit, don't have him grouped with those that you're going to stack attack with. But if you don't use stack attacks and are familiar with the some of the short cut keys for selecting units and groups, you will be out classed every time. It's not the speed of your connection that is causing all you problems.

If you want to experience and test the end of turn lag, practice an mp game solo. It will give you a slight feel.
Of course the first 20 turns of exploration takes longer because your exploring scout or warrior will not move right away at the begining of the turn due to the "last unit moved lag" that I talked about earlier.

[rah]

ANd don't keep all your units in the city if you're intending to let an enemy attack the city. If you planning on decimating the SOD right when it moves up to your city, then fine. MP is usually decided by who gets the most from their seige (or collateral damage) units.

I don't know what you're whining about, since EMPIRE defense is a lot easier than offense. Let them crawl across my cultural borders why i have the freedom of roads to attack on my terms. Nicking with seige and finishing off the nicked units. (especially if you nick them past where your mounted units can now win and flank the hell out of their seige units)

One thing you really need to learn about is how to use culture. I've never seen people lose cities to it like you do. That you can practice in SP.


Attacking doesn't require a lot of strategy. Go in with overwelming force. If you have the bigger civ with good teching, it's easy to build and maintain that overwelming force. The only comment I'll make here is that if you paying for big army, it better be paying for itself.

[Berzerker]

Also preset orders seem to be canceled when combat is a result.

In SP I've had pre ordered warriors run into barbs and enemy units, scouts will pull up and stop cuz they cant attack. I'll have to check that out but maybe that was another change for MP.

So one trick is to not have the unit you're going to attack with first the next turn move last in the prior turn. Pre ordered turns are not executed until that unit is cycled too.

So pre ordered units do or dont generally move first? I know in SP I'll see my pre-ordered guys running around as I start moving free units but they're usually done long before I'm finished moving units.

If I have a mixed stack of siege and melee all together do they attack siege first or is the ai attacking based on unit to unit strength ratios or some other criterion? In SP the ai wont always lead off with the siege stuff but it usually does (I think). So group siege units and attack separately with groups within the stack. I've been stacking everything together and attacking and I have little to no idea of the sequence of the attack.

One thing you really need to learn about is how to use culture. I've never seen people lose cities to it like you do. That you can practice in SP.

I lost a border city which was like 3 spaces from the Persian #2 city, but I dont know much about culture. Can culture levels be set for each city or just the over all empire? Like if I have a border city in need of culture can I set that within the city's screen so it applies only to that city?

If you want to experience and test the end of turn lag, practice an mp game solo. It will give you a slight feel.
Of course the first 20 turns of exploration takes longer because your exploring scout or warrior will not move right away at the begining of the turn due to the "last unit moved lag" that I talked about earlier.

Good suggestion, I'll try it tonight

I'm off to the driving range

[rah]

In SP I've had pre ordered warriors run into barbs and enemy units, scouts will pull up and stop cuz they cant attack. I'll have to check that out but maybe that was another change for MP.

Yeah, not sure on that one. When I have units next to enemy units and give them pre orders to attack, they dont' seem to do it, but I do remember when giving preorders for mulitple turns haveing them run into things.

So pre ordered units do or dont generally move first? I know in SP I'll see my pre-ordered guys running around as I start moving free units but they're usually done long before I'm finished moving units.

No I believe they move when their turn comes up in the cycle.

If I have a mixed stack of siege and melee all together do they attack siege first or is the ai attacking based on unit to unit strength ratios or some other criterion? In SP the ai wont always lead off with the siege stuff but it usually does (I think). So group siege units and attack separately with groups within the stack. I've been stacking everything together and attacking and I have little to no idea of the sequence of the attack.

That's why I usually group the types together so i can control it a touch better but still not be doing it single unit by single unit. I believe that stack attacks simple strike left to right in the order they're listed and that order is determined by strength of unit. Depending on your mix will determine if seige attack first. If you have a mix of macemen and cats, the macemen will attack first, but if you have macemen and cannons the cannons will attack first.

I lost a border city which was like 3 spaces from the Persian #2 city, but I dont know much about culture. Can culture levels be set for each city or just the over all empire? Like if I have a border city in need of culture can I set that within the city's screen so it applies only to that city?

No, just like your science and espionage sliders, it's for your whole civ. You can control some by city by the buildings and specialists you put into it. If the civ you're next to is creative, you have to be quite aggressive building culture or you'll be overrun. A big thing one is founding a religion in a city and converting to that religion. That will provide +5 culture to that city. Early on that's big and you can squeeze a neighbor. I do try to rig which city a religion will be founded in. Usually one where I really need the culture early on to stave off a culture encroachment. Always check what buidlings your civ can build cheaper. If one of them is a culture building. Library, temple, steele or other, build that early on. But there are always going to be cities where it doesn't matter so don't waste the effort in those cities.

I'm off to the driving range

I hate you

[Berzerker]

thx, thats a good start to this thread

Now I gotta find the keyboard shortcuts I"m in for some painful lessons before I figure this stuff out

[crescentfresh]

The last unit or group that you move at the end of a turn can not be moved until x number of seconds into the next turn.

To state it more precisely, If you move a unit when the timer is down to 0, you'll have to wait 8 secs into the next turn to move it again. If you move with 8 seconds to go, you can move immediately when the next turn begins.

I learned things like that by playing in the league here:

http://league.civplayers.com/

[Berzerker]

is that site the same option we have when joining a mp game within the game menu?

[crescentfresh]

civplayers league

is that site the same option we have when joining a mp game within the game menu?

Not sure what part of the game menu you refer to, actually. We are the multiplayer league. We used to be the MP ladder. We mainly use the gamespy multiplayer lobby that you log into through the game, yes. Most games hosted in the MP lobby are not league games, though. Anyway you can email or find me in the lobby if you want more info or you want to play sometime.

cres

crescentfresh1 on skype

[trev]

A big thing one is founding a religion in a city and converting to that religion. That will provide +5 culture to that city.

There is a minor error in this staement. The culture from a religion accrues to a city when EITHER your civ has that religion OR when your civ has NO state religion. If happiness is not an issue, I will often run with no religon, this way all religions in your cities provide culture, a easy way of gaining more culture if other players are sending missionaries to your cities, or you have founded several religions yourself.

[rah]

Yeah, I noticed the NO state religion the other day for the first time and was wondering why I was getting it. I didn't realize that. It's nice to know. I guess that's why you don't convert most of the time. Do you also get the happy if you're No state religion? I never checked that.

[crescentfresh]

Yeah, I noticed the NO state religion the other day for the first time and was wondering why I was getting it. I didn't realize that. It's nice to know. I guess that's why you don't convert most of the time. Do you also get the happy if you're No state religion? I never checked that.

To get the +1 in the early eras you have to adopt the religion as the state religion.

The late game "Free Religion" Civic is another ball of wax where you get +1 happy for each religion in a city, but when you adopt that Civic, yes, it forces you into the "no state religion" status.

[rah]

Yeah, I knew about the free religion civic, and it's forcing you into no state religion etc. (the main reason I don't build certain wonders figuring i'm going to be change to free religion as soon as possible, unless I'm spiritual and bouncing to whatever makes the most sense at the time)
But since I didn't notice the one feature I figured it was possible that I missed another one.