Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread IV]

[Pitboss Rome]

I'm sorry Mr Maya but your recent statement is not true.

I happen to know that several players contacted Korea after login in and seeing that they declared war on Greece, asking him if he was insane. Rome was one of these players. Interesting to note however that according to civstats, Rome logged in AFTER Greeces last login for the turn. This means that if Greece accepted the "accidental peace treaty", this war would not have showed up when Rome logged in. Very fishy.

I don't mind if you want to hunt around finding new conspiracies, but please be so kind as not to make false statements about Rome.

(all times here are local to me GMT)

Sparta send me a PM at 09:17 which I have already referred which said; "Korea has totally turned against me immediately after I have ended negotiations regarding the Maya/Sparta/Korea pact. They have placed their entire army next to my border, including the army I borrowed to them. They even declared war on me, but offered a cease fire immediately which I accepted."

Much later (about 19:30) I came online and heard about this war from this communication from Sparta, together with the story posts (for example the declaration from the The FARMERS UNION for a CONSTITUTIONAL KOREA #287 posted at 19.11). I was on for a while, played my turn (21:02-21:21) (and logged in again later at 2327) did a fair bit of business including, I wrote the following to Korea at 22:19 "Greetings Kim Jong-seo, commander of the People's Army. I am Marcus Aurelius, the new Emperor of Rome. I understand that in days past Korea and Rome had close dealings. More recently, however, under the dying elements of the old evil Imperial family, communication between Rome and Korea evapourated. I regret this. I hope that we might restart those communications. Marcus of Rome."

As you can see was not 'contacting him to ask if he was insane' as you suggest. And I can assure you that it was not done because I logged in and saw that he was at war. It was done on the basis of the earlier message from Sparta about the war, and the story posts. Maybe ever time you log in you check the diplomacy screens to see if nation a is still at war with nation b, but I don't. I read the story post and my own pm box. And indeed as far as I was concerned (because of the pm from Sparta) there was no active war, just a cease-fire and accusations of betrayal etc. which I wanted to understand more. And indeed Korea send me a very long explanation at 2315

I would thank you for keeping me out of your conspiracy theories.

[MMC]

Ok

Since there are three possible reasons for this, and they each have an immediate solution:

• A bug of some kind occured. SOLUTION: Reload
• Someone cheated or otherwise engaged in underhand tactics. SOLUTION: Reload
• Human Error. SOLUTION: Continue
• Aliens. SOLUTION: Panic

2 reasons to reload and 1 reason not to... Based on pure statistics, I'm going to have to support a reload.

EDIT: After talking to bt_oz last night, I'm going to have to add a 4th option

[Pitboss Greece]

Wow Maya, one accusation of cheating at the same time please

- When we started this game, there were fatal errors on the map. I think that the English settler started in the sea, etc. We asked you to fix it, but you were not responding for a week. Then I jumped in and edited things right.

- I got iron and gems (or copper and gems) from in-game events

- I don't remember nerving you. maybe I did, maybe I didn't. I certainly did not for the reason I thought you cheated. (for the record, the cheat accusation record is: Cyber - Maya: 0 - 4 or something) (I never thought you cheated. If you would've cheated, you would've given the Roman spot to yourself)

So far regarding the map-cheat-accusation (Which is new).
Check the setup thread for the exact reasoning behind this stuff. Others can confirm.

And no, I don't blame you for accusing me of cheating. I understand that in the heat of the moment these things happen. But you may start to tone down a bit on it though, especially since it always appears to be a wrong accusation.
(Though keep an eye on me and on everyone! Especially on the game host, because you are right, game hosts have special tools to cheat. Keep an eye on me, that's never a bad thing)

Regarding the screenshots, I have said already that I make much screenshots.
Especially when in-game chats happen that I want to deal with by PM.
In this turn this was a msg from England and this one from Korea.
I can show the one from England as well if you want.
I make many screenshots. It's so simple, just press 'printscreen'.

I also have screenshots of the peace deal I made as Russia with Rome.
You may be suspicious, I als am suspicious, I just want to make things solid.
And yes, right now I am happy that I am suspicious as well, for it now gives me solid evidence.

But I am fortunately not as suspicious as you that you even take my 'screenshot' as evidence of a cheat-setup. Calm down friend

[MMC]

After looking more closely at the text, and at some other (minor) bugs which have occured in this game, I believe I have an answer, and a solution.

That map trade offer was sent BEFORE the declaration of war. Due to whatever issues, Cyber did not login to view the trade... or even if he did, somehow it did not display. Then Tony declared war, and moved his units. Cyber later logged in and was presented with the map trade screen. Because the trade cannot take place during a state of war the game neatly tacked on a ceasefire to the trade. Upon accepting the ceasefire, all of Tony's units were moved out of Cyber's territory.

This is simply a case of two messengers crossing paths, and whilst not officially a bug, it is an exploit of sorts of the game mechanics. Therefore, no-one is to blame, but a reload should definitely take place.

[The Capo]

Alright, damn you boys have been busy!

I'll start out by saying this, just to clarify; first of all Russia; I didn't disclose any information about you so you need to relax, Cyber did, and even if you say I talked about your PMs the one I was talking about in that screenshot he took was the one you sent to the both of us. So stop whining about me, because I didn't tell him anything he didn't already know. Which goes to my next point, because I now realize what happened.

I sent that offer to cybershy on the prior turn, but after he had already moved. The next turn I moved before him and attacked him, but since he hadn't moved yet he didn't get the message until after I had already declared war on him, so I guess the game still sent it anyway and tacked on the Ceasefire agreement that I never ever sent to him in the first place.

As far as bringing IC things into this thread; I am disappointed in Greece for doing that, don't complain about what I did to you here, do it in the story thread. And anyway get off your high-horse, I'm not an idiot, I know you are stronger than me.

To clarify what Maya said about Rome and Piercia et al.; Rome didnt' contact me saying I was insane, that was Piercia who did that. I forget if they specifically used the word insane, but they definitely thought I was out of my mind for declaring war on Greece. Rome PMed me, and they were the first nation to do so (after the war declaration), which I was going to post about until I realized something was wrong when I logged into the game. This got way out of hand, but you have to realize what I thought when I logged in. It just so happens that I declared war on the guy who was running the game then all of the sudden I'm at peace the next turn? And no, I am not one of these people who is going to sit there and say "oh there's no way cyber would do this." That's BS, if you think like that you are an idiot. I'm glad that you didn't cheat cyber, but I'm also not going to go around thinking its above you, people do stupid things sometimes and even if you are an upstanding person you are not immune from making stupid decisions. So I'm glad you didn't, but I'm not going to apologize for thinking you did considering the circumstances.

Having said all of that, I still think we should reload the game and play our turns in the same order. It isn't my fault this happened.

[The Capo]

And BTW Cyber; don't complain that you got duped, admit it, you're just upset you didn't see it coming. And stop hijacking my characters, Lyssander is a Capo original, I say what he says, not you.

[St Jon]

Boys and girls this now approachs destroying the game istself! I would benefit from a re-load as I was unable to login at all so have missed a turn! I have also had my diplomacy seriously compromised which will for the rest of the game probably leave only Maya trusting my veracity - or at least have proof of it - again.

This is childish behaviour of the most outrageous kind! I was really beginning to enjoy this game with it's intrigue and plots even as leader of a nation in a hopeless position but this is too much to take. How can, on such flimsy evidence, the very founder of the game be tried and found guilty of an in game crime which can only have the sanction of expulsion? If these accusations are true a reload is pointless as the game itself is compromised.

I say that if foul play really did occur both Cyber and Capo be expelled and the rest of us carry on. If no foul play occurred then the rest of you stop behaving like 5 year olds and accept that an honest human error was made!

I realise that I am the newest player and have least weight in your arguments but I have no time for any of this. In other words PUT UP OR SHUT UP! Play the next frigging turn or expel accusers and accused and get this F*****G thing over and done with. If not the whole thing is ruined and any fun we might have enjoyed will be gone in a pit of distrust!

Unashamedly OOC!

[OzzyKP]

Yes, reload:
Capo
MMC
Ozzy
Maya
Khmer
Portugal

No, don't reload:
Rome

Don't care:
Friendly Fire

[St Jon]

EDIT: Sorry, since you revealed your identity, and seem to be discussing things that are better not shared publicly (in my opinion at least) I'm editing out the content. I'll PM you the message, in case you want to send it on privately. Or.. if you really insist, repost it publicly, just giving you the chance to reconsider before lots of folks see it. - Ozzy

[The Capo]

EDIT: Sorry, since you revealed your identity, and seem to be discussing things that are better not shared publicly (in my opinion at least) I'm editing out the content. I'll PM you the message, in case you want to send it on privately. Or.. if you really insist, repost it publicly, just giving you the chance to reconsider before lots of folks see it. - Ozzy

I don't want to continue arguing but if you knew me you'd know I can't help it! Where on earth did I ever say you were going to invade the Maya?

[Pitboss Khmer]

Cyber, can you please just reload. It is clear something odd happened.

Proving cheating will fail.

We are wasting time and the longer it goes the game will go down.

I have to report that thee are definitely glitches in Pitboss so loet's err on the side of the benewfit of the doubt.

A few periods ago I was in a diplo screen with Maya (who had just gone offline I think)

I answered that screen and then Capo started texting me in Maya's screen!!

I could see the Maya text and Korea text afterwards still in the Maya screen!

MMC is probably right all along so let's just reload it and get past it?

[MMC]

MMC is probably right

I get that a lot

[Pitboss Rome]

Capo your arrogance astounds me. You come on accusing people of deliberate cheating, causing huge amounts of agro and when it turns out that you simply made a mistake and didn't understand a game mechanic, you don't even have the decency to apologise.

Next time, why don't you come on saying 'guys something wierd has happened can we reload?', or 'guys I think I've made a mistake and its a really serious one, can we reload'. I'm sure if you do that you would get support and sympathy. Falsely accuse people of cheating and don't even apologise when you are proved wrong, and you certainly don't get mine.

[Pitboss Maya]

Well, I feel stupid.

The explanation MMC said makes the most sense, and Capo confirmed it.

So it was a game glitch after all, or more specifically, a consequence of not having a set turn order due to Pitboss (I still prefer pitboss, don't get me wrong).

Sorry for landing in my black helicopter, and jumping out with a tin foil hat on. Sorry for putting a tin foil hat on you Rome.

The map thing had me wondering for a long time, especially since I deleted my copy so there was no way I could reference it even if I wanted to. Glad to hear it was an in-game random event.

So, I hereby formally apologize to you Cyber.

I do however think that due to the nature of what happened and why it happened (a stupid game mechanic that nobody knew about until MMC cracked the case), a reload is in order.

Lets get past this, and I promise to keep my fat mouth shut the rest of the game.

[Pitboss Rome]

Sorry for putting a tin foil hat on you Rome.

Tin foil hats - do they match my banana armour?