European Diplomacy Discussion and Planning Thread...

[The Capo]

Well, that building seems pretty powerful, especially if its a UB. But I am trying to change the aspects of the game as little as possible, so I am going to try and avoid changing/adding buildings too much. The only reason I am changing the religions a bit is to try and make them a bigger cause for conflict (much like divisions in European history). I am going to need names that would replace some of these wonders...

Hollywood
Statue of Liberty
Three Gorges Dam
Pyramids
Great Wall (probably change to Hadrian's Wall)
Hanging Gardens (probably the baths of Caracalla)
Ziggurate
University of Sankore
Chicen Itza
Shwedagon Paya
Forbidden Palace
Manhattan Project
Lighthouse of Alexandria


There are probably others that I can't come up with now, but the idea will be to change a wonder that isn't European to one that is. So the name is going to change but the bonuses will stay the same. You can be creative though, for example maybe instead of Hollywood and change it to Wembley Stadium, we can retitle "Hit Movies" to "Football Match" or something like that. Or Wimbledon or whatever other stadiums are over there, or maybe something different.

That's one thing that needs to be done, I might change certain techs that found religions. For instance I may change Meditation to "Animism" or "Druidism" and have it found Celtic Paganism for example.

Anyway, any other suggestions would be helpful too.

EDIT: You could also bring back old wonders from prior versions of Civ, like Chicen Itza could become King Richard's Crusade for example.

[Pitboss Persia]

The UB i suggested would replace the cathedral, so you would only have one for each 4 cities you have, and the effects would only apply to that specific city, and only for your state religion (meaning not while using free religion for instance).

[Robert]

Hollywood - Cannes
Statue of Liberty - Branden Burger Tor
Three Gorges Dam - Delta Works (Holland)
Pyramids -
Great Wall (probably change to Hadrian's Wall)
Hanging Gardens (probably the baths of Caracalla)
Ziggurate -
University of Sankore - University of Paris
Chicen Itza - Venetia
Shwedagon Paya - St. Peter in Rome
Forbidden Palace - The Louvre
Manhattan Project -
Lighthouse of Alexandria -

[The Capo]

We could probably rename the Apollo Program whatever the Soviet Union called their thing.

We could probably replace something for Big Ben in London.

I was considering turning the Hagia Sophia into the Orthodox Holy shrine, but I'm sure there's a better equivalent out there.

Again I am sure there are others and this will partially rely on what art there is out for buildings (because I am not able to make my own, at least nothing good) so maybe if one were so inclined they could search around and see what is available.

So c'mon Europeans, let's hear your ideas.

BTW, I love your ideas CS.

[The Capo]

For forbidden palace I was thinking of something a little more generic (we can use the Louvre for something else, like a world wonder) like calling it "Provincial Palace" or something to that effect so its more generic.

I'll probably change the term "World Wonder" to "Continental Wonder," and in case anyone wanted to know I was going to change the UN to the EU, or ECU or whatever variant you think is best.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by The Capo

Tier 1:
-Spain
-England
-France
-Germany
-Sweden
-Russia
-Italy

Tier 2:
-Portugal
-Scotland
-Poland
-Ukraine
-Austria
-Turkey
-Netherlands

Tier 3:
-Norway
-Lithuania
-Bulgaria
-Hungary
-Finland
-Romania
-Greece

The tier idea is a good one, though you might want to consider the several specific situations:


Spain might not be taken but someone really wants to play Portugal (I see no problem with letting them).

Someone want's to play Rome and no one is interested in having Italy (again I see no problem). Actually change the first tier to Rome/Italy since in they have the same starting spot.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Hollywood - Cannes
Statue of Liberty - Branden Burger Tor
Three Gorges Dam - Delta Works (Holland)
Pyramids -
Great Wall (probably change to Hadrian's Wall)
Hanging Gardens (probably the baths of Caracalla)
Ziggurate -
University of Sankore - University of Paris
Chicen Itza - Venetia
Shwedagon Paya - St. Peter in Rome
Forbidden Palace - The Louvre
Manhattan Project - [B]the name of the French, Russian or UL program [B]
Lighthouse of Alexandria -

United Nations - European Union or perhaps Council of Europe

[Pitboss Persia]

Hollywood - Cannes
Statue of Liberty - Brandenburger Tor <- fixed
Three Gorges Dam - Delta Works (Holland)
Pyramids - (something like the roman senate would do i guess)
Great Wall (probably change to Hadrian's Wall)
Hanging Gardens (probably the baths of Caracalla)
Ziggurate -
University of Sankore - University of Paris
Chicen Itza - Venetia
Shwedagon Paya - St. Peter in Rome
Forbidden Palace - The Louvre
Manhattan Project - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAUD_Committee not sure about that one, but I couldn't find the name of the (earlier) french project.
Lighthouse of Alexandria -

[The Capo]

I think the proper name for the Roman Senate would be the Curia Tribae, or simply the Curia.

[The Capo]

Quick question: why Venetia for Chichen Itza? It doesn't seem to make sense? I would think something involving a holy war, or a temple dedicated to a god of war?

[Pitboss Persia]

Taj Mahal - Arc de Triomphe
Broadway - (any well known opera house in europe, musicals are an american thing after all. Don't know the most appropriate one)

Venetia seemed weird to me too, i'd like to know why cyber chose that one.

[The Capo]

Originally posted by Heraclitus


The tier idea is a good one, though you might want to consider the several specific situations:


Spain might not be taken but someone really wants to play Portugal (I see no problem with letting them).

Someone want's to play Rome and no one is interested in having Italy (again I see no problem). Actually change the first tier to Rome/Italy since in they have the same starting spot.

Well I suppose I could split them into regions instead I guess. Regarding Rome though; I want to try and not have archaic states involved. So no Celts, or Brittany, or Dacia for example. I'm trying to keep it to modern states as much as possible.

[The Capo]

Although in the Europe Mod (to make it more palatable to people other than us to DL) I was going to have extranious civilizations such as Rome, Dacia, Byzantines, Burgundians, Brittany, Minoans, Huns, Goths, et cetera.

I just didn't list them all out. But I think its best for our purposes to make them more modern European than anything else, which Rome (while the contributions are unchallengable) I would think qualifies as an ancient civilization which was more mediterranean than European, at least that's how I'd describe it.

Basically I think having Italy would be better than having a Roman civ (plus I'd like to have all of the Tales from the European Front civs involved).

[Robert]

Originally posted by The Capo
Quick question: why Venetia for Chichen Itza? It doesn't seem to make sense? I would think something involving a holy war, or a temple dedicated to a god of war?

Wasn't Chichen Itza a city-complex? I just picked a very atmospheric special european city.

It may be very wrong

[The Capo]

I think the concept, in the game at least, is that it is a place where people are brought to be sacraficed to their gods for protection/rainfall/harvests/general good-graces. So you get city defense for whatever reason.

So I think the general way of looking at it would be some type of temple or holy building dedicated to a god or defense or something of that nature. Chicen Itza as a city/complex yes was very ornate, but I don't think that is specifically why it is the wonder. My personal suggestion would to be to call it King Richard's Crusade (or something in that vein), maybe some type of Roman monument, or even something else. But we'd be wise to also consider the era, and by that I mean when the technology is likely to be discovered that allows it.

Basically when we rename these things (and we are gonig to change the graphics too of course) we should consider the technology that allows it and the advantages you get rather than, necessarily, a direct link from the wonder in civ. For instance; the Hanging Gardens give health bonuses in Civ IV. Well if we used the Baths of Caracalla that makes sense because there is a health bonus connected to it (cleanliness), although if you compare the function of the two buildings there isn't really a connection other than maybe the use of water.

So if you wanted to do something like, the canals of Venice, perhaps we could switch that out for something that gives a monetary or cultural benefit of some sort. But making it Venetia itself may not be the greatest idea, it annoyed me that Ankgor Wat and Chicen Itza were both names of cities and wonders. Since Venetia is, most likely, going to be a city for Italy.