Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread III]

[Pitboss Maya]

Sorry for not responding earlier, I had the same login problem you were experiencing.

Concerning the unit that moved off the ship. I had the "auto end turns" option turned on from playing a different "live" game, and it ended my turn before I could move the unit off the ship.

This could have actually played out to your advantage, because first off it gave you a chance to sink the ship with the unit on it (and you did try).

Secondly, I will mention that had i waited a turn, I simply would have moved the ship (2 spaces) then unloaded, giving me the same distance to turn ratio.

Thirdly, and I only bring this up in case some sort of punishment is called for... the double move rule as it is written in the first post of the org thread does not prohibit what happened. If this is identified as an issue that needs addressed for the future, then it needs to be written into the official rule.

[Robert]

do you accept his explanation, Rome?

[Pitboss H Roman]

Originally posted by Pitboss Celts
CS, can you confirm the holiday plans for the game?

With folks being off I think we can expect a minimum of two turns from everybody on the 25th.

[Pitboss Japan]

I forgive you Maya. Besides Rome deserves to burn

[Robert]

Please remind me, when was I supposed to put the turn-timer on 200 hours?

[Pitboss Japan]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Leave it on 24 hrs or even better drop it to 12hrs

[Pitboss Japan]

On another note I hope this war brings the Inca player back to us. Just one post to see if he is alive is all I’m asking for. If not then I hope Khmer and Holy Romans leave him with only 1 city for stealing two of my wonders right as I was about to finish them. I hope Khmer and HR take screen shots cuz I want to see the Inca Cities burn

[Pitboss Rome]

do you accept his explanation, Rome?

Well, I certainly accept what Maya says that he did do a double move. That after I had ended my turn in 1295 he then moved a macemen off a ship to two tiles from a city, and then in 1300 he then moved first, before the 6 hours point, he then moved it next to a city.

This is precisely breaking what is written

Thus, a civ at war can move after:
- 6 hours have passed since the new turn started after his last move
- all his opponents have moved after his last move

Maya moved last in 1295 but didn't wait until 6 hours or until I had moved.

I don't follow the point that it wouldn't have made any difference in distance to turn ratio. Wherever a ship goes, it can't put a unit next to the city in question. So there would always have to be:
-unit lands
-I respond
-unit moves adjecance to city
-I respond.
The double move simply did cut my response from 2 turns (which had been carefully planned) and 1 turn (problem).

As for why I didn't simply move first, can you imagine the reponse if I had simply done that of my own bat? Not that I could without making a double move on the Greeks since I need to wait for them and their forces are intermingled. By the time you suggested it on here, I had already got on with trying to make the best of a bad job.

I know it would be convenient if it didn't really matter, but it did.

(And lets me clear, I have no desire at all for Maya to be punished, all I'm interested in is the IG effects).

[The Capo]

(And lets me clear, I have no desire at all for Maya to be punished, all I'm interested in is the IG effects).

This is WHY we are always having this problem, and before CS starts calling me a tyrant I will also say that, if you read what I posted before, I don't think ANYONE should be penalized right now. That said, there has to be more clarity of ramifications here. Are we goign to discuss this for a week until someone decides to reload the game from the point of the turn? Are we going to discuss it and say, "oh well Rome, too bad, we should have done something about it before"? Or are we going to do what we have done the past two times this has come up; NOTHING?

I think, for this sitaution and in the interest of keeping the game going, we should ignore it and look at it as a lesson learned. We should alter the rules to be SPECIFIC. And in order to ensure this here is what we need to do to alter the rule.

NO MOVING AFTER YOU END YOUR TURN. This should be a rule just to ensure that we have the proper times listed on the website. When you end your turn, you are not allowed to move units, and if you are caught you are in violation of the rule. This way there is no confusion, there is nobody ending their turn and then moving their units afterwards. In fact I think a double move comitted in THAT fashion should be seen as a much higher degree of cheating.

If you don't incorporate this change, and you allow this to continue without any type of resulting penalty you are just going to encourage this behavior. You may call me cynical, but I know FOR A FACT that I am right about this. This rule must be altered, and it must be enforced from now on.

[Pitboss Rome]

Look, clearly since we have played on now for two full turns, reloading is not possible and would create massive problems for everyone else. Its hard to identify and reverse the effects because having to spend money in one place for defence means it wasn't spent elsewhere against a different enemy and so on. So how about someone using WB and just transporting the offending unit back to the Mayan capital. Its a pain for the Maya, but well, he did do the move; its gives a short-term tactical bonus in one part of the war for me which in some way compensates for the problem. And as Maya can see from the map, that particular unit is not now poised to do anything particularly dramatic. So its not making a massive fuss or huge change.

Just a thought, because we all want to move on and keep civing.

[Robert]

We can't use the WB, but the Maya disbanding the unit may be a good solution.
Otherwise I'm also fine with reloading 2 turns back.

Maya: please disband the unit immediately.

If this issue is not solved by the time I wake up tomorrow then I'll reload the game back to 295.

Maya: please confirm that you disbanded the unit.

[Pitboss Khmer]

Pls do NOT go back. It stuffs up other civs and wastes time and loses momentum for everyone.

Besides, using the Time Machine Wonder is not the way to solve issues.

[Robert]

I need something to put some pressure on the Mayans
Otherwise I'll get The Capo on my back. (And this time he's right, imho, something must be done now. otherwise we'll never be able to enforce this rule)

I'll give the maya some slack and wait till they post here again.

[MMC]

Once this issue is resolved, might it be a good idea to open a 4th org thread?

[Robert]

will do.