Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread III]

[Pitboss H Roman]

Korea - some great stoies lately. And kudos for handling the Oldonia situation in thhe way you did.

You just might get another of my votes this month.

[Pitboss Japan]

I will sub for whiplash until a new player is found.

[Pitboss Korea]

Originally posted by Pitboss H Roman
Korea - some great stoies lately. And kudos for handling the Oldonia situation in thhe way you did.

You just might get another of my votes this month.

Awesome, see Cyber, turn over the passwords. Its on like Donkey Kong.

[MMC]

Nice to see Korea running with my suggestion for Oldonia.

And HRE's posts are looking good. Hopefully the other players can match it.

[Robert]

You've got PM Capo

[Pitboss Rome]

Well guys the whole thing does just seem a mess to me.

In the space of twenty minutes you can get one civ messaging you saying "I just ended my turn so you will have to wait 6 hours until moving next turn" and another ending turn and then carrying on moving!

If end turn doesn't mean end turn, the whole thing falls apart doesn't it?

[Robert]

We've never discussed the issue: "can you move units after you ended your turn"
It's just a game mechanic that makes it possible.

I think that during war time civs shouldn't move units anymore after they have ended their turn.

If I understand Persians action correctly then Persia and Rome were not at war while Persia hadn't ended it's turn.

I can understand that Rome feels a bit mislead (though it may be questioned if that was Persia's intention! Maybe it had accidentally ended it's turn, or auto-ends it's turn when all units have moved! Or just suddenly realiased that he was about to invade Rome)

Anyway, since Persia moved units after Rome, Persia has to wait 6 hours into the new turn.

Let's just all try to keep things fair.
Avoid double moving, surely if it gives you a huge advanage! Maybe it is possible by game-mechanics, and accepted by game-rules (6 hour rule), if you can wait a couple of hours more, then please don't take that empty city with 2 moves b/c the defender did not move in between.

Give the defender some time to do his moves.

Fair play goes further then obeying the rules stricly.

[Robert]

Originally posted by Pitboss Maya


Your turn also ends if the timer counts down and you haven't manually ended your turn.

This is important in order to close a loophole in the double move rule.

Now... CS.... so there is no bickering....

After this turn we are adhering to the 6 hour rule???

I think that all involved parties should! (tha's Rome, Greece, Maya and Persia, right?)

The question is if two civs are moving simultaniously, but one ends it's turn just a sec before the other one, did the first ender then move first?

I'd say that those turns are simultanious.

I think there's an intersting situation now, am I correct if I state:
- Greece ended turn first
- Then Maya/Rome ended turn
- Lastly Persia moved (they ended turn earlier)

The correct order for the next turn should be:

- Greece moves first
- Then, or after the 6 hours are done, Maya/Rome can move
- After that Persia can move

The last step is most difficult.
Rome can't move as long as Greece didn't move
Imagine that Greece won't move within 6 hours, then technically after 6 hours all civs can move

That means that Rome and Persia are able to move at the same time again.
That's not fair towards Rome.
But letting Persia wait another 6 hours isn't fair either towards Persia.

This can be solved by:
A. Greece moving early, then Rome can also move and Persia just waits till the 6 hours are done (or Rome has moved)

B. Persia is able and willing to wait till Rome has moved (good sportmanship!) (till at most 12 hours after the turn began)

C. Greece is ok with Rome moving from the beginning of the turn on.
If I'm correct then the Persia/Roman war is more urgent then the Greek/Roman war. (Rome reports there is no sight of Greek soldiers, while it is quite panicing here () over Persian soldiers.
Maybe Greece is fine with Rome moving early in the turn.
Rome could even promise to only move on the Persian side of the war and wait with moving on the Greek side of the war.

I hope that we can just find solutions for this by all showing good sportmanship.

Rules are for those who aren't gentlemen

[Pitboss Rome]

this was written before the immediately preceeding one by CS

Thanks CS, and obviously we have to move forward, and I agree that "Fair play goes further than obeying the rules strictly."

You must be right that "during war time civs shouldn't move units anymore after they have ended their turn". And of course that is what happened here. Piercian end turn, declaration of war (therefore war-time) then move units. I'm very happy that there was no bad intent, but intent aside it has had an impact since when Piercia ended turn I made moves on the basis it could not invade that turn. But it sounds like I just have to bear those losses.

Regarding the 6 hours now, I presume I can count on Maya and Percia being reasonable. Since Maya moved before me, I can't move until Maya does or the 6 hour point. But that means that if Maya doesn't play early, I find myself leaving it until after 6 hours to be fair to them, but bang on 6 hours Pierica could legally move again and get a serious legal double-move. So 6 hours aside I presume we can stick to Maya, Rome, Piercia, and people not moving after end turn?

[Robert]

We've never discussed this issue, but let's make this a rule, or vote against it:

Rule proposal: during war time players are not allowed to move units anymore after they have ended their turn, unless their opponents did not move yet, or ended their turn before you started yours.
This obviously doesn't count for units that are far away from the war

Agree or not agree?

[Robert]

And another proposal:

Civs that are at war with each other shouldn't be moving at the same time!
If you see that you opponent is currently in the game (civstats) then wait till he left it, and then login.

This is to make things more clear who moved first / last, etc.

Agree or not agree?

[Pitboss Japan]

In my opinion all this rule talk is meaningless without a real penalty so why even bother? I mean come on who will listen to a rule that is not even enforced? You can ***** and complain all you want but instead of trying to rewrite the rules why not try to enforce them for a change.

[Pitboss Persia]

I agree to the second one.

As I said to Rome IG, I don't notice he was logged in when I pressed enter. That's why I didn't pay attention to finishing all moves before pressing enter. The troops I moved afterwards were fortified, and I pressed enter after I moved my workers and unfortified units.

Now concerning this turn and next turn :

If Rome moved his troops this turn after I moved mine, he should be waiting for me to play my turn before he moves again next turn.

If Rome didn't move any troops this turn after I moved mine, I will gladly wait for him to move his troops next turn.

If he moved his troops this turn after I moved mine, and moves again next turn before I move mine, I would consider this being a double-move, for obvious reasons.

So... Rome, did you move your troops after I moved mine this turn, or not ?

[Pitboss Maya]

Since Maya moved before me, I can't move until Maya does or the 6 hour point.

Just FYI, I will be making my move very eary in the turn timer today, so no worries here.

[Whip[lash]

Originally posted by Pitboss Japan
I will sub for whiplash until a new player is found.

Is this ok with everybody? I could leave now and let Japan take over, or wait for an entirely new player.